Re: Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF

Donald Eastlake <> Tue, 23 February 2021 15:42 UTC

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From: Donald Eastlake <>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:42:13 -0500
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Subject: Re: Diversity and Inclusiveness in the IETF
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While not exactly on point, participants in this thread may be
interested in

 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 5:06 AM Carsten Bormann <> wrote:
> On 2021-02-23, at 05:33, Keith Moore <> wrote:
> >
> > And yet, you shouldn't be required to work with any specific person to get around those idiosyncrasies.
> While this is a desirable goal, it also is a lofty one.
> The reality in *any* organization is that it is easier to do things for people who know the organization than for those who don’t.  (We have a German word for that, Stallgeruch, which is hard to translate, so I’m not going into more details here.)
> The objective can only ever be to make the organization *more* accessible.
> I believe finding a shepherd for new work is exactly the right way to approach the IETF, and I applaud Bron for playing this role with datetime-new.
> (I found Bron’s telling of the deleterious effects of fashions like “everything must be done in OAuth” refreshing; our work has also been hit by this one, but is now slowly emerging, albeit in a rather damaged way, from ACE.  But avoiding fashions is maybe orthogonal to making the organization more accessible from the outside — fashions damage insiders, too.  It is also not easy to recognize a fashion from a groundswell.)
> Grüße, Carsten