Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets
Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org> Thu, 10 May 2012 09:43 UTC
Return-Path: <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F2A21F866E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -96.735
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.735 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_DE=1.448, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L2NXyzonGOj1 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lvps83-169-7-107.dedicated.hosteurope.de (www.gondrom.org [83.169.7.107]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAAF21F866C for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=gondrom.org; b=rd8HUd+t9O8a4g9PiPPwxP91UsinWDVHtA1KidXiCTow0dFs8XaqyoUNKbMim4xPa9aFPhnxyUG5FzOn8kpETfiJGknyxF/wUMkKwG51NCHENprFQwpL2jY3krS9xc30; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;
Received: (qmail 3515 invoked from network); 10 May 2012 11:43:11 +0200
Received: from n2028211917.imsbiz.com (HELO ?10.65.1.159?) (202.82.119.17) by www.gondrom.org with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 10 May 2012 11:43:10 +0200
Message-ID: <4FAB8DA9.6060104@gondrom.org>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 17:43:05 +0800
From: Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ynir@checkpoint.com
Subject: Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets
References: <97BB17A56A65B20E9FB38128@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <360B33DF-0603-4B86-B488-DDDBEDF2B10B@bbn.com> <64D096E2-78E1-4B4F-B227-42AB7B658FF6@cs.columbia.edu> <BE62B481-1FBD-4F82-92BA-EAC0D0519639@ietf.org> <alpine.LRH.2.01.1205061559060.10886@egate.xpasc.com> <92DE3992-7212-4DE4-A4FA-57AED9DFE827@ietf.org> <alpine.LRH.2.01.1205061851340.12673@egate.xpasc.com> <2A1B808B-217C-4B09-B2A7-E179B3CA8FC8@ietf.org> <4FAB5ED8.7070004@gondrom.org> <5D365E621E09E8B8DE2F4006@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FAB7567.7070402@gondrom.org> <12F34D6725B91B95351EB144@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <4FAB80F9.40207@gondrom.org> <4FAB85EA.7080608@dougbarton.us> <CE1FAD6B-C8D6-4BBC-9938-1E3A34B51782@checkpoint.com>
In-Reply-To: <CE1FAD6B-C8D6-4BBC-9938-1E3A34B51782@checkpoint.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: john-ietf@jck.com, ietf@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 09:43:14 -0000
+1 Agree with Yoav. BR, Tobias On 10/05/12 17:35, Yoav Nir wrote: > On May 10, 2012, at 12:10 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 5/10/2012 1:48 AM, Tobias Gondrom wrote: >>> What I dispute is that "make available to those who are interested" >>> necessarily leads to the need to broadcast the data (i.e. publish in the >>> proceedings). >> What is the harm you are trying to guard against by requiring the request? > Well, there's the obvious issue of spam, although this post that I'm making right now provides my email address to the spammers in a much more convenient form. It's also convenient for headhunters. It also allows my employer to check whether I really went to sessions instead of just touring Paris. Is it the business of the IETF to help in these activities? > > I still don't get why you would want this published. My name on a blue sheet could mean that I was presenting for half the session, or that I was at the mike telling people they were wrong, or just sitting quietly in the back minding my own business and reading email. Blue sheets (unlike minutes and jabber logs) don't make such a distinction. > >> Or, to take a completely different tack, given that there are a non-zero >> number of people who think the data should be published, how do you >> intend to deal with someone who makes the request, and then puts it up >> on their own website? > I think this would be a copyright violation, unless the IETF specifically authorized them to do so (which it shouldn't). I don't think the IETF should prosecute, but it's still a violation. > >> I don't hesitate to criticize when I think that the IESG gets it wrong, >> but in this case I think they threaded the needle about as well as it >> could be threaded. > I think that needle should not be threaded at all. A list of participants should maybe be kept (scanned or not) but never published without subpoena, just as it is now. I don't see any reason why publishing it (as opposed to recording actual participation) is a requirement for an open process. > > Yoav >
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Shishio Tsuchiya
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Randy Bush
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Kireeti Kompella
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Randy Bush
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Thomas Nadeau
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets George, Wes
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets George, Wes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Scott O Bradner
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Samuel Weiler
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Andy Bierman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Donald Eastlake
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Dave Crocker
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Bob Hinden
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Avri Doria
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Donald Eastlake
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Avri Doria
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Sam Hartman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Christian Huitema
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robin Uyeshiro
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Lixia Zhang
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephen Farrell
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of Blue… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of … Christian Huitema
- Re: IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IAOC] IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handl… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Samuel Weiler
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Eric Burger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Richard L. Barnes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Richard L. Barnes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Warren Kumari
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Carsten Bormann
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Eric Burger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets edj.etc
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Adrian Farrel
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair