Re: Non routable IPv6 registry proposal

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 20 January 2021 21:32 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21A83A150D for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:32:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.359
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ndgii0azqj4t for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:32:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13DB23A150C for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:32:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id q131so4993947pfq.10 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:32:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PSgTkNQ2CwH82K5hhvZhDe1cRiJ6pmnS+EINPCbBaiQ=; b=syU24roYXDFF7rfT1PkGsR1gAShMqKYCOfhAod0O3RMy1SpNvP89++vSILo+B7w6W2 +3h8JsueezAtumBqx2MrIRTnAn4KgPRfQUWMEZ+HusVN9uPkLyVxnpT5sZLi2FtG+Lhh AbcFndsXISW7cJ7uK+jAsDf5Z50c+5OHauTZ9/8HYrZyrJzpuZUicDO88pNhVR2DqdSa SfolqbM3a8Vs85x7ByP4fjVr2E+UF9WKi7fqwxklO0PEl3DSromOVYaF/mSL4RUGOEUi 3Xkg4juR2XukrVVVLjhK5WW/MgbYS9RVg3HMH3wwLCL1HkrQmm+VIX4wwKa9u5OkZR+L +5qA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PSgTkNQ2CwH82K5hhvZhDe1cRiJ6pmnS+EINPCbBaiQ=; b=GiczqWMj+s4xi+HtXG1S/hMuatLpFbYfHbr7ZAXNzytM28eThQHCtllBTYIC3qeMwh kFCXYMFV9MLXUAEzpvVbUpsD824+nVJuN0DFbfUaBytSMzolwt+2cmg+uMRzxmXwsoPe /p1Moa4yvvOjLip764ol90phWsNHHtl+0yaxHAHlktUIy5h58y7jOZX+btZi0wgpw9rm kPA8tn223oBjv1S+uzNdf3mM+Zvbt0kKVdU6++nZ8YzACQ9mYA4B/kHH/Kea7roa0SYx hwFtBp2APdRWxJQHB0KZnDKYEMrL7zyMrzka41qCrInG98XQn0eofPmBGvofvspHSA6i 3vrw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530bCK8bXJHUNB8/utsWNuUEkisIEpjd7NMljviqqu2cNshFI9YC SgedmiFY8OM2cB0+18T+yXuHVZBv8n0egw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2K6E0erxdr/vff5uMyegwFAnu0kVq8WQDeKSimicq2WGtAICbHAROZ64H+h5afDS+kByq1Q==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:700f:: with SMTP id l15mr11145303pgc.214.1611178350933; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:32:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [130.216.37.181] (sc-cs-567-laptop.uoa.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.37.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5sm3233426pjo.49.2021.01.20.13.32.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:32:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Non routable IPv6 registry proposal
To: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <CAMm+LwjNiE0P7RAVqzKMypNbh3=9BeqiWn_hGv3E=zX7-YmSXQ@mail.gmail.com> <abdac3dd-f601-1fae-8c9f-fbe393930558@foobar.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e9a49b69-b629-356b-c33a-4d49794c3e89@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 10:32:26 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <abdac3dd-f601-1fae-8c9f-fbe393930558@foobar.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/uQwrTNzT1yfh0-16S0m3k8LYKLE>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 21:32:34 -0000

> if you don't need 
> both, then ULA should work fine.

More completely: if you don't need both, *or* if you are willing to risk the unlikely inconvenience of renumbering if your ULA network ever merges with, or directly interconnects with, another ULA network that by chance has the same pseudo-random prefix, then ULA should work fine. The birthday paradox part of this is discussed in section 3.2.3 of RFC 4193.

RFC 4193 also reserves, but does not specify, a range of such addresses (usually known as ULA-C) that could in theory be centrally registered, if people don't accept the birthday paradox risk. That was the topic of the recent discussion that Nick mentioned. So there is no need to assign anything new. The only issue is how to fund such a registry and guarantee it indefinitely.

As for NAT, it remains totally unnecessary for IPv6 (see RFC 4864). We do have a half-acceptable solution (i.e. it mitigates some of the damage done by NAT) as an *Experimental* RFC 6296.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 21-Jan-21 09:58, Nick Hilliard wrote:
> Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote on 20/01/2021 20:06:
>> The proposal is to reserve a significant block of IPv6 space (e.g. 
>> 2002::/16) as non routable address space to be allocated in Class A/B/C 
>> sized chunks on a permanent basis either through random assignment or by 
>> a new registrar TBD for a negligible one-time fee ($0.10 or less).
> 
> this idea was the subject of a recent discussion on 6man, subject 
> thread: "Re-Launching the IPv6 ULA registry".  The original email was here:
> 
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/fFpPHY55pwKlEopyyAZyZI8azg0/
> 
> There were several aspects which cropped up, but the core issues seem to 
> be whether the end user needs both address permanence and the 
> requirement for interconnection to third parties.  If you need both of 
> these, then registered addresses are a good idea; if you don't need 
> both, then ULA should work fine.
> 
> There are options out there for getting formally registered address 
> space at modest cost.  It's not 10c once off, but it's not going to 
> break the bank either.
> 
> The economics you're proposing may need a bit more consideration, 
> especially given that registries need long term stability, both 
> financial and from the point of view of governance.
> 
> Nick
> 
>