Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis-15

Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> Tue, 11 September 2018 17:36 UTC

Return-Path: <farinacci@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACB2130DC3; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a3pJ_K6G2kWR; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0977124D68; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id h79-v6so12566185pfk.8; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=gNB3TgKAhyftnsk4CoZ0lWF+70fokZUoV4lIvfqII+E=; b=CVd2R0LCK/B0Mu4Slixif87C63y5jvrb1HYler8BCf0JguuR3MXrtY19aFp3c4WfGH VlBO0vO6VRuwXVd5pidRsQ55/eY0gcngD8iWEbBm5NMg9AwliN1nvnO2atd7kIUMANx7 pLsocImceBxD3VZiaDe6S6tVNBOOjneIYPaXuztu79MRSLFsNmk5IchiC6T9GXqXBkDb Lqs2Pik/YFsYRB9/2dZGgTLJq0biSRS3HOGZUipewrjOKfyQWx7tyKOOVYM9GneCAasU OOckYlMixWjAG4OBJn0fp7Pi4NoSjHTLcvTLFSNXbL5JQAXxjtWLFXk/7zRDWl3KXLGH dGFA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=gNB3TgKAhyftnsk4CoZ0lWF+70fokZUoV4lIvfqII+E=; b=D2gXT9Ko6B2mms9SRCEO72lkhChcNJGWwRHJE8hFrdesfHDsIktiycMMeZkpX32d5N ldqFk3TJBsNQuKIB+vfNdhyhfZX8J9LvOGVNqflo8GJbdhgR5aBDYoQdvKRo0005J0hY feBFmGYHuAhbaMlZ3eRqVa9yhjUt1myHaXDiVk3BvVMCLN2srJJPKaQUPq82gzarDb1v xU2iEaeITtDVteAKo/dEqij2bV4R/DrIJw1MsiFyg1kIxMZfPlhw3T7VoS7zQPy7UfKr Vba3QkYN4/WV21+MjnHhTUNm98+bPxKjmrP78IiTAvdDugUsuj+B+ZN/RqwV00R4poPF dOxQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51AuERgsX0wz2C8AtWUO/7AD0BLS4ZgI1gTzHdypFCG0PRA5RZxf BNhhxOwVYu7RMAAfGX/AE54=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdY8tO3aSc7RjJzd7yaBS+X5rZC3z5eUZ0Qedz2dOhss3x4APkTlK58pIzmClgOJLrjVXw2AWA==
X-Received: by 2002:a65:50c9:: with SMTP id s9-v6mr29729037pgp.417.1536687390407; Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.31.79.252] ([96.72.181.209]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y18-v6sm23145446pfl.90.2018.09.11.10.36.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:29 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\))
Subject: Re: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis-15
From: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJU8_nXBw9fOA829WhxUZ=7nmP-HbMtF0W7mOjW-o1H8g6f1_w@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 10:36:28 -0700
Cc: Luigi Iannone <ggx@gigix.net>, IETF SecDir <secdir@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis.all@ietf.org, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org list" <lisp@ietf.org>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <C6CC17E1-D327-4860-94D5-A3E827DABD0C@gmail.com>
References: <153513922907.22939.10542350679349996082@ietfa.amsl.com> <FDA69FDF-696B-4959-AADB-0999630C723D@gmail.com> <CAJU8_nWwHAQYeo4oCVq=dVquRK1VhO-TdUKw5JmvbX1idWa=VA@mail.gmail.com> <A037BDB7-C780-4D44-A031-49F39AA3F11F@gmail.com> <CAJU8_nUJ7BLJhgjw6Sa-xeY0=OpK4N2ffKLjZ-3m6+Uiws5wTw@mail.gmail.com> <77109099-A756-4563-968C-5AC17FF38291@gigix.net> <CAJU8_nX9mNZ=DvQoCmqzptWfK10G+HpmOx2L+LAH-srNJRuXuA@mail.gmail.com> <6546936B-3AFD-47C4-8A27-8298DDDBBA09@gmail.com> <CAJU8_nXBw9fOA829WhxUZ=7nmP-HbMtF0W7mOjW-o1H8g6f1_w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/uyPZC5gRby_6HmJBdk9vtRMWkEA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 17:36:43 -0000

We are not supplanting the mechanism for routing. There is a layer above routing that can (1) pull like DNS, and/or (2) push like BGP to realize an overlay.

Dino

> On Sep 11, 2018, at 10:30 AM, Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>; wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>; wrote:
> > but this doesn't specifically address the fact that a pull-based control plane will fail in a different way, and one that is potentially harder to diagnose, from a push-based one. One area in which it differs is that a loss of a BGP session followed by a network partition is obvious to all users trying to move traffic between those two networks, while choking off control plane traffic in LISP may only affect some endpoints in a mysterious way.
> 
> IMO, a feature and not a bug. And arguably harder to diagnose makes it more secure.
> 
> Possibly. But being better or worse isn't my point, so much that it's *different* in a material way from a security perspective. Those deltas are where something proposing to supplant the prevailing mechanism for DFZ routing needs to be clear to operators. 
> 
> Kyle
>