Re: Registration details for IETF 108
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Tue, 02 June 2020 16:03 UTC
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 12:03:39 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwife0w5conrdBgz+3YAWQ1bZg1_EjHXaEVbzmxp0rH1Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Registration details for IETF 108
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
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On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:29 AM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:16 AM Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote: > >> Eric Rescorla wrote on 02/06/2020 13:57: >> > This seems like entirely appropriate practice on short notice. >> >> neither side's position seems unreasonable from their own point of view: >> the LLC needs to make executive decisions and sometimes these will be >> problematic. Conversely, the IETF community has an expectation that >> there's engagement about policy changes before they happen. >> > > Hmm... This doesn't seem like the right framing to me in several respects: > > First, I think everyone agrees that some kinds of policy changes would > need consultation. For instance, if the LLC were to decide that in > perpetuity we were not to havemeetings or that we were to have 6 a year, > that would clearly need consultation. On the other hand, I (would hope) > that everyone agrees that some changes could be made by executive > decision. For instance, moving the refund date forward or back by a day > would I hope not require community consultation. So the question at hand is > what kind of decision this is. > Indeed in this particular case, there are no alternative choices available and thus no decision to be made. I have spent far too much time over the past four years explaining to my former Oxford friends that reality isn't something you decide by referendum. Reality isn't subject to consensus calls either. The brute facts we face are that international travel is certain to be infeasible for the remainder of the year and quite likely for some time beyond, that the IETF business model is predicated on income from in-person meetings that can't now take place and this leaves few options on the table. Making standards is fundamentally a process of making the choices that don't matter - except to the extent it matters that we all do the same thing. In this case they aren't even really choices. Second, as you can see from the thread above, it's not correct that "the > iETF community" has an expectation they should have been consulted about > this in advance. Rather, part of the IETF community does and some of it > thinks this was fine. > Rather than 'fine', I would use the word 'unavoidable'.
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration details for IE… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Lixia Zhang
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Scott Kitterman
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Robert Raszuk
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael StJohns
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Colin Perkins
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Adrian Farrel
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Mehmet Ersue
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Pete Resnick
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Pete Resnick
- Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for IET… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for IET… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Ted Hardie
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Robert Raszuk
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Bajpai, Vaibhav
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Daniel Karrenberg
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Colin Perkins
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael Richardson
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael Richardson
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- standards? (was: Registration details for IETF 10… Randy Bush
- Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IET… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IET… Michael Richardson
- Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IET… Phillip Hallam-Baker