Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Mon, 14 April 2014 16:34 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
In-Reply-To: <CF71721A.180A9%wesley.george@twcable.com>
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:34:40 -0400
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George, Wes <wesley.george@twcable.com> wrote: > - We don’t have nearly enough focus on running code as the thing that helps to > ensure that we’re using our limited cycles on getting the right things out > expediently, and either getting the design right the first time, or failing > quickly and iterating to improve > The solution here may be that we need to be much more aggressive at expecting > any standards track documents to have running code much earlier in the > process. For instance, had DMARC proponents and/or Yahoo, spent some time making sure that there was some running code for mailing list use, life would be better. I'm not entirely clear how it was that we produced/funded (more) running code in the 1990s. Maybe this is a false idea; it could be that there was less code then than there is now. I will posit several factors: 1) there was less working occuring, and perhaps over a longer time period (where time is subject to perception as well as reality), such that code became mature sooner in the specification process, and/or there were simply more volunteers willing to produce it. 2) many companies were much smaller, and it was easier to get line managers to see why they wanted to be directly involved, even lead, efforts. 3) it wasn't so much the dotcom boom which made money available via VCs, but rather that the (ultimately unstainable) revenue doubling, quarter over quarter which made resources available for prototypes. 4) there were some clear institutions (MIT, CMU, Berkeley, LLBL, UW) where some good reference implementations were developed by students, faculty, staff. And don't forget WIDE and USAGI!!! When I founded Xelerance, it was with the idea that multiple large organizations were shipping IPsec code on Linux, and would rather pay a company a maintenance fee than attempt to manage the process internally. We got some work funded, but we never got enough funding to get ahead of the standardization process and write code will an ID was still young. Overall, that effort failed. -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
- "why I quit writing internet standards" George, Wes
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" David Meyer
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Alia Atlas
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Ted Lemon
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Michael Richardson
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Tim Wicinski
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" David Meyer
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dale R. Worley
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Jari Arkko
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Bjoern A. Zeeb
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Carsten Bormann
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Wesley Eddy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Yoav Nir
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Wesley Eddy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Melinda Shore
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Carsten Bormann
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Cridland
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Yoav Nir
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" S Moonesamy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Douglas Otis
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Hector Santos
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… John Levine
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… Dave Crocker
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… Hector Santos
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Douglas Otis