RE: Old directions in social media.
ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com Fri, 08 January 2021 17:43 UTC
Return-Path: <ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37443A1189 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 09:43:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1q-m9UBj4Mj for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 09:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from plum.mrochek.com (plum.mrochek.com [172.95.64.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEEDF3A1188 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 09:43:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01RU4QM50SS000B8AU@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 09:38:34 -0800 (PST)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET="US-ASCII"
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01RTUUND7D1S004QVR@mauve.mrochek.com> (original mail from NED@mauve.mrochek.com) for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 8 Jan 2021 09:38:31 -0800 (PST)
From: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com
Cc: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-id: <01RU4QM34GP4004QVR@mauve.mrochek.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 09:18:49 -0800
Subject: RE: Old directions in social media.
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Fri, 08 Jan 2021 12:28:34 +0000" <AM0PR08MB3716E884A0BF30D161E26750FAAE0@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAMm+Lwg1-pxKU8vMinFDUbVca52VgFzTOOSJMnJjaUJvF6PLew@mail.gmail.com> <062d01d6e387$39c46270$ad4d2750$@acm.org> <CAJU8_nWD3MwLs5aVNMi_3LqZysrfjv0N7N3ujV-zhqxiFh3tsA@mail.gmail.com> <788651ca-0c84-7a54-9c48-b962faed635f@network-heretics.com> <CAJU8_nXSE-E2AVrJnqe5ZifR+qGhXscNCFXQRDj_GU1r=hNOyw@mail.gmail.com> <70416f47-7c31-8571-02ce-f95ff386d54f@network-heretics.com> <X/TtgTtl02AMyns8@mit.edu> <AM0PR08MB371623409DE8AB03CC667234FAD00@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <866b1357-ec50-7765-4277-fd4fba8d793e@network-heretics.com> <AM0PR08MB37166B8E57C293917737D9D6FAD00@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <d8454121-f6fb-3cbb-3149-656e20efce96@joelhalpern.com> <AM0PR08MB3716C960817BCCFEE4F9F911FAAF0@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <edf8225b-d005-4f99-b96f-41bc49633da3@joelhalpern.com> <AM0PR08MB37169778B08F3F83413194B0FAAF0@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <01RU3E1RGXW4004QVR@mauve.mrochek.com> <e3b4e262-9d4d-2c5c-5588-67d37d8cedc4@mtcc.com> <AM0PR08MB3716E884A0BF30D161E26750FAAE0@AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/w8BwvQhlFbVHPjq7ipNLLTXKKA4>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 17:43:43 -0000
> On 1/7/21 9:27 AM, ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: > > Speaking as 30 year IETF participant, including four years as an apps > > AD and many stints as a WG chair, this is not now and has never been > > my experience. I could not even begin count the number of times I've > > had to review mailing list discussions as part of reviewing a draft. > If the document you are supposed to be reviewing does not give enough context > so that you have to review the mailing list discussions then there is clearly > something wrong with the document. > That should have been your review comment. And in those cases where a choice made in the document doesn't quite jibe with your memory of what transpired in a meeting... which may be wrong... but you weren't on the list so don't know what went down later.. what then? Or when some text in a document published long ago and now being revised doesn't line up with operational practice you've seen, and you need to know the WG's reasoning for the choice, or for that matter whether they were even aware at the time that the alternate practice existed? Or any of a thousand other variations and permutations that can occur along the often highly nonlinear paths our documents often take? Or are you seriously suggesting that all of the discussions leading to every design choice, discussions which for the most trivial of matters can run into dozens of messages and thousands of words, should be faithfully captured in the document itself? And with this, I'm done. You are clearly operating in some other reality than the one I occupy, and I have no more time to waste trying to understand it. Ned
- Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- RE: Old directions in social media. Larry Masinter
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kurt Andersen (IETF)
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. - Issue track… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. - Issue track… Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Fred Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Stephen Farrell
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Theodore Ts'o
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. avri doria
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Fred Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Mark Nottingham
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Wes Hardaker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Richardson
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- RE: Old directions in social media. Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- RE: Old directions in social media. Larry Masinter
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Vittorio Bertola
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel Halpern Direct
- RE: Old directions in social media. ned+ietf
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Tim Bray
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Richardson
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Carsten Bormann
- Re: Old directions in social media. Stephen Farrell
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Eliot Lear
- Re: Old directions in social media. Carsten Bormann
- Re: Old directions in social media. Carsten Bormann
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Old directions in social media. Wes Hardaker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. tom petch
- RE: Old directions in social media. ned+ietf
- Re: Old directions in social media. Nick Hilliard
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Richardson
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Eliot Lear
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Lloyd W