Re: document writing/editing tools used by IETF

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Sun, 28 February 2021 03:00 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A093A0928 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 19:00:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.449
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b=eFKnut0A; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b=Z2HekrZn
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3usrAYfPCReb for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 19:00:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDE3D3A0927 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 27 Feb 2021 19:00:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 17187 invoked by uid 100); 28 Feb 2021 03:00:08 -0000
Date: 28 Feb 2021 03:00:08 -0000
Message-ID: <s1f0vo$ejp$1@gal.iecc.com>
From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=431c.603b0738.k2102; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=cLtgJnb15+nD0JSl6hu4ll1/dfyvoqBj9o6dML2FtPY=; b=eFKnut0AyiKmo+3Dgl7rjL2SXJtV/Pwwc1jH7u9a5RJHbRZ2rs4E+vYQKaCsynvkynLniYWc03Y05P+pSG59nVAL1tmRHpYu/R4J+WavFhIqDg2uNprOWX+NtWTOfQhXSQodyVpDgbrBTn4uFHyqrq6+q0NuwdsrVV/xW+TQ21X2hkeTDbhu1SjJnJZ0yTOLs60Up7LbCIjyKzTrg2mKcdreRKZ9p0hNW/HoFXntNtUBBa9Is53bN7zz9YgrX1yxsA47mg+fCM3PeAZNoAhFLM4wYsiFYHr6A7ja9FOFqj7DFu/j0nX6fyPiVBCK3iZD6jepMTeno8agOIT7lziUpw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=431c.603b0738.k2102; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=cLtgJnb15+nD0JSl6hu4ll1/dfyvoqBj9o6dML2FtPY=; b=Z2HekrZnEbokAGv9EYR39wQjOtFCDXCJUhfvOeGrvl3WNB9x05OICQ5tutzwgS+o0F+3XQWNNe129ltd2MLOGk4gr2eI6OPJ14xOLDeRIBttmuoH2rJCVGhLCw63g62YYGGgPHfEBMwrxQevsgc2uH84SRL5hlTv2bAGF5hITVOVdahzDOe6m0aSPLZAgLpLyU0a0vukIcpMhboiFva+RZMJTyWmM5m50MC3O4OJnWqGx3ytL/Kp+j/OcFwdxhAj/1FxVp6RZHx+Agu9N+qTKo7WcZ//ZenqgHSjaDPk4ZEdcc3wz484wIi5HnSIqdN9uuRjtaKKEDMdlC1PYHYOog==
Subject: Re: document writing/editing tools used by IETF
Organization: Taughannock Networks
References: <20210227190200.06ED46F10439@ary.qy> <4064.1614454347@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <20210227190200.06ED46F10439@ary.qy> <4064.1614454347@localhost>
Cleverness: some
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/wozpHPAobvqdbooEXcU0n9XxTL4>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 03:00:13 -0000

In article <4064.1614454347@localhost>,
Michael Richardson  <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>    > We're strange but it's hard to imagine that we're so strange that there
>    > isn't an existing package somewhere that will do the job either as is
>    > or with minor customization.
>
>You are stating this completely backwards.
>We aren't strange, we are brilliant, and it's hard for others to understand
>our needsd.
>
>There were in fact, existing tools when we started: they were airplanes and hotels,
>but we were strange, and we wanted to access remote computers without travel, ...

Indeed, but that was many decades ago. There are some ways in which the
IETF is cutting edge, some in which we are amusingly backward. Most
of the people I deal with can send an e-mail that says "I highlighted
the changes in yellow" and all of their correspondents see the yellow
text. Try that here. Remember that MIME was invented in the IETF and
HTML down the virtual hall from here, both about 30 years ago.

People do all sorts of online collaboration these days using tools
that have been developed over multiple decades. It is sheer hubris to
imagine that we are so special that nobody else could have built
collaboration tools that would work for us.

R's,
John
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly