Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
<lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk> Tue, 31 May 2016 03:34 UTC
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Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 03:31:52 +0000
From: lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
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> But there's another problem, too: because the IETF is a technical organization > that publishes documents, everyone who participates in the IETF by definition > finds it acceptable to make technical statements, otherwise they wouldn't be > IETF participants. That's what they signed up for. They might not be willing > to make statements in other fields, because that's not what they signed up for. > We don't know until we ask them. We might want to do that before making > non-technical statements in the name of the organization. too late. See e.g RFC3271 ('ideology', 'noble goal'), RFC1984, RFC7258... The IETF is now a function of the Internet Society (ISOC), expressing the policies of the Internet Society within its technical domain. (Because the IETF famously couldn't govern itself, and if there's just one thing that ISOC is all about, it's governing other things.) If you're not willing to make a statement on a non-technical field, ISOC will decide what you think, and make that statement for you. ISOC "acts as a public relations channel for the times that one of the "I" groups wants to say something to the press. The ISOC is one of the major unsung heroes of the Internet." -- says ISOC, singing its praises in the Tao. L. this is a bit like learning the truth of the Bible from the Bible. Lloyd Wood lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk http://about.me/lloydwood ________________________________ From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Cc: IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org> Sent: Saturday, 28 May 2016, 2:14 Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 12:34 AM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: if we start to make >decisions about what it is appropriate or not for us to do based >on what some group of critics might find useful, that is the >most purely political decision-making of all. > I think it's not so much a question of making decisions based on which group of critics might say what. It's which decisions and statements we make. The IETF is a technical organization, and debating technical issues is within its charter and its expertise. If the IETF makes statements in other areas, then it will be making statements that are outside its charter and area of expertise. Due to lack of expertise, those statements are likely to be less effective than those of other organizations that *are* in their area of expertise, and if we are unlucky, they could turn out to be poorly worded or backfire. But there's another problem, too: because the IETF is a technical organization that publishes documents, everyone who participates in the IETF by definition finds it acceptable to make technical statements, otherwise they wouldn't be IETF participants. That's what they signed up for. They might not be willing to make statements in other fields, because that's not what they signed up for. We don't know until we ask them. We might want to do that before making non-technical statements in the name of the organization. Again, this is separate from debates on our internal codes of conduct. Those are discussions that participants have to have or at least be affected by, because the organization cannot operate without codes of conduct.
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… James Seng
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Ted Hardie
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Margaret Cullen
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Benson Schliesser
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- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Benson Schliesser
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [E] Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singa… Gross, Scott W
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ole Troan
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… otroan
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Leslie Daigle
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Dhruv Dhody
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Lemon
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- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ole Jacobsen
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- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 nalini.elkins
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ole Jacobsen
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- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Melinda Shore
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… nalini.elkins
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- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Niels ten Oever
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- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… Melinda Shore
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- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Dave Crocker
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Jeffrey Haas
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Background on Singapore go/no go f… John C Klensin
- Re: Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100 Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Keith Moore
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Carlos Martinez
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Melinda Shore
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Tony Rutkowski
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Joel Snyder
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Joe Abley
- Re: IETF-100 maybe it's mostly been said? (Was: R… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… James Seng
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Aaron Morgan
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Derek Jett
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
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- Why we meet (was Re: [Recentattendees] Background… Melinda Shore
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Bert Wijnen (IETF)
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John C Klensin
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dave Crocker
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Leslie Daigle
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- Success metrics Re: [Recentattendees] Background … Bill Mills
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… kathleen.moriarty.ietf
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- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Dave Hood
- Re: Value of meeting attendance (was Re: [Recenta… Stephen Strowes
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Michal Krsek
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… John C Klensin
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… lloyd.wood
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Brian E Carpenter
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- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
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- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Mary B
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- RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… MH Michael Hammer (5304)
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- Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/… Naeem Khademi
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