IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: List moderator action

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Tue, 05 May 2026 19:56 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15800E97A39C for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 5 May 2026 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1778010985; bh=bjsSfMIp3wtNNFekbSV14JOzPDCUofQfGxKmIFr8NNw=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=RR7ZRQgIGkCr5XSfRn0quqmjUc8CVDMUVGx3H5fONnrrcsT09ZFeklgBAudwiE/GJ bLT+kYyQK0gdtbG0DkPE1zoktP9CNpJrFNCvtIYx4ULZn5J7KTmWZC2kHjEob1P9Cl NSuy1Wee+gWYY/NxhBVgNPl8dBr8lhDK8zy6fKkI=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gD30zF7mxJUd for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 5 May 2026 12:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from DB3PR0202CU003.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-northeuropeazon11020121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.101.84.121]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF44AE97A2CB for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 May 2026 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=K+40++IDHUkzS8KliaBQBB80oXQ+r0Wv4qBAtmHvaEkVfbgluGrjpcOqDjhvIJ1pc4fnXLcuDOmsohbfnQqqNF9AG7koX0ReJI+USHs63Gp3UBYDQaWM55sH7rQV8B2pfy+kQkSEAToJLAKUQYfqlJW+yW/h4VHFuPV1SQ8GI1G8yQkjD4XftChhtjcL/YqZQjzyipUh/KCR/eKcQwJwgsv5EswqmPN3ahm72zTI3TA2+5GZqCW73wJ0VPZfJf4OSsxUBxmoV0Pr7anCRAF3fV4ofZpmPzGNY+O77ILBRflRt6fQ+Dy2+2HPu0QFgFI0lvJNFX+Y6nz75IucI3MdLg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=bjsSfMIp3wtNNFekbSV14JOzPDCUofQfGxKmIFr8NNw=; b=Jk9x5Vv5XUm3UzkD+gCP4TvwfwQB6zlivBxNiR+TNAyYW1HdGrW7OBDvhtF1VbU9PgSIJ7GqPp2TZ2mA29HU1YvKMVeZqe+Kan2+XeR353EFUruH65MbyDm7QppUYLCMcjQIIytcw63cDhOTiXMrswOunPXCYLYj9YnSAZR8NGLtoENoNzBaJE8L0sSuv+qm1CsFqCVfD+mM350WjHa/Qn0cxnxdSbzG8rqJYDg6aPr8lnrok1fDgoYsdH90TMnBimqsPz8V/AQvDge9kPNYuDopizZr9qbH7ioPwzgoQQNZ6ZPH+ToTq1aQ0KQtqa+Dq3dCBvciBQ3kWbWIyJ55Xg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=bjsSfMIp3wtNNFekbSV14JOzPDCUofQfGxKmIFr8NNw=; b=BE/k8KrLWdO1IC6sl7kAqdQmpbZQ7VKacyoFfqnCRIyQWxXq7wNN5WhGMywnCQDwmOehOnt90RSzY+kcpC1tSnHlaI6YsH6H+p4EBjUTMQOv8eov1WyV7RHd7uvKQgRbhdlOAgKM4f0F0QZ64at6ftKDlEd2Z0eSKo7tT2ft4LqswtZsiMRusujNM0GXSyDprwixaOWz9H3NJe7aiGwGZCD54pEUOiJ/JXflo7TAl9oV7PqExV0K53vPcxRZmLIlmG01J/fs1P9IZ3f0W4P3EV+dhVLv0YhRQXdWG6nfXBlS/pvzX06bV9VijfwCcwA6yi6P2fCdks1evVxard1xPw==
Authentication-Results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie;
Received: from PA3PR02MB11163.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:4b4::19) by VI1PR02MB6159.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:18a::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.9870.25; Tue, 5 May 2026 19:55:35 +0000
Received: from PA3PR02MB11163.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::71cc:8d7f:5cb5:3772]) by PA3PR02MB11163.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::71cc:8d7f:5cb5:3772%5]) with mapi id 15.20.9870.023; Tue, 5 May 2026 19:55:34 +0000
Message-ID: <71da08d0-fc5c-4ef4-b4dd-c22787cf4183@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Tue, 05 May 2026 20:55:30 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: List moderator action
To: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood=40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Simon Josefsson <simon=40josefsson.org@dmarc.ietf.org>, Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
References: <CAChr6Sw9NH=jFrnr+rB2aA7C7N9shgE1gjimQCxMvPW-0vh1HA@mail.gmail.com> <323b0599-475c-47ae-b3b1-beeeb2069eaf@gmail.com> <87cxzbd428.fsf@josefsson.org> <ffe1fea6-852d-427b-bd27-50fd2afbe714@gmail.com> <87a4uew9dl.fsf@josefsson.org> <ef58e1e9-2a3c-42ff-90bc-a181581939c2@lear.ch> <87ecjqf06v.fsf@josefsson.org> <BY5PR11MB4258FB27B47D4924BCDD1B27C73E2@BY5PR11MB4258.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Autocrypt: addr=stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie; keydata= xjMEY9GzphYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAo6JvjmSbxHdQWPZdvciQYsHhM1NxQBU398Mmimoy4p7N M1N0ZXBoZW4gRmFycmVsbCAoMjU1MTkpIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPsKQ BBMWCAA4FiEEMG54R8tZDyZFrDOn5Njp+ZeoM90FAmPRs6YCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQ5Njp+ZeoM93bogEA25ElRyX0wwg+kGEN1AoL60MoZfvQZ/VtmXY6IC5j +csBAIBpkL5ySuzJK2zLNZn9qQGht8IaUcA7cvDcLvS2uHUEzjgEY9GzphIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQILCPWOwW36e8D3pY8GmvvtItIT+A5uV80ist+WokVsQAwEIB8J4BBgWCAAgFiEEMG54 R8tZDyZFrDOn5Njp+ZeoM90FAmPRs6YCGwwACgkQ5Njp+ZeoM92bcAEA8R+8cpqRUIS+SoAN iO05xE6O/wEx8/e88BqzAYki3SoBAOQdwiPX+MQrAxkWD8xxOsdMOAtxYKpkD1n8aPJUw6QJ
In-Reply-To: <BY5PR11MB4258FB27B47D4924BCDD1B27C73E2@BY5PR11MB4258.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------nc74d4i2HQNSfiXtXsA7rqQ7"
X-ClientProxiedBy: DB3PR06CA0036.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:8:1::49) To PA3PR02MB11163.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:4b4::19)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: PA3PR02MB11163:EE_|VI1PR02MB6159:EE_
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: d5aefef1-603e-48fe-4438-08deaae044e2
X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True
X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP
X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|366016|19092799006|786006|376014|10070799003|1800799024|18002099003|56012099003|22082099003;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:PA3PR02MB11163.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(366016)(19092799006)(786006)(376014)(10070799003)(1800799024)(18002099003)(56012099003)(22082099003);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 2
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: 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
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1: h67sJxsPfkckzw==
X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d5aefef1-603e-48fe-4438-08deaae044e2
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PA3PR02MB11163.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2026 19:55:34.8378 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: hQdSXCoR9SuH2rKC1ezyMfAA4sQtgwImtEBfeLjhk7D7TRQwGRfO3+2s1IckdTx8
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR02MB6159
Message-ID-Hash: JPIVA7OSOBB3PTJZLHG67CMKLLVE525R
X-Message-ID-Hash: JPIVA7OSOBB3PTJZLHG67CMKLLVE525R
X-MailFrom: stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ietf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/xzgH05uSWWj6mv-8h9U3GYSM_ho>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ietf-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ietf-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-leave@ietf.org>

Hiya,

On 05/05/2026 19:48, Livingood, Jason wrote:
> (no hats) Has anyone written a (clear & concise) Internet Draft on
> the technical aspects of this? WG mailing list debate is all well
> and good, but at the end of the day IMO it is no replacement for a
> clearly written internet draft explaining all of the detailed actual
> or potential technical risks and issues associated with one or
> another of various possible approaches.

I don't believe so, and the situation differs a lot depending
on whether you're considering key exchange or signatures, and
also depending on which protocol you're discussing.

I wrote up a description of what I saw as the state of play last
year [1], which probably still covers some of the controversial
points sufficiently, ([1], page 17) though I'm sure some people
would disagree:-)

Cheers,
S.

[1] https://pqcsa.eu/deliverables/pq-protocols.pdf

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status