Re: Things that used to be clear (was Re: Evolving Documents (nee "Living Documents") side meeting at IETF105.)

[Stewart Bryant <[e-mail]>]

If you don't like XML, use Markdown.

There is not a lot more to remember than a # to start a section level
and four spaces for a figure.

The header template is a bit strange, but you crib that from an existing 
draft, then you need a few minor bits of # and {} for references and you 
know everything you need to know for 99% of the work.

- Stewart

On 10/07/2019 15:11, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Is it really that hard?
> 
> Even crusty old idiots like me have worked out how to use an editor to 
> make XML that is acceptable to XML2RFC. I doubt that I am clever or more 
> talented than Fellows of major engineering organizations.
> 
> All tools (even github) require to be learned.
> 
> Replace tools with better tools, by all means.
> 
> But don’t make changes for personal preference: that way lies unending 
> debates about whose preference is best.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Adrian
> 
> *From:*ietf <[e-mail]> *On Behalf Of *Richard Barnes
> *Sent:* 10 July 2019 14:57
> *To:* Randy Bush <[e-mail]>
> *Cc:* Julian Reschke <[e-mail]>; IETF Rinse Repeat 
> <[e-mail]>
> *Subject:* Re: Things that used to be clear (was Re: Evolving Documents 
> (nee "Living Documents") side meeting at IETF105.)
> 
> I'm glad it works for you.  The non-IETF-habituated new authors I've 
> worked with have found it mystifying.  Including everyone from junior 
> engineers to Fellows of major engineering organizations.
> 
> As Christian says, our continued attachment to bespoke tools is a 
> barrier to getting new work in the IETF, and thus detrimental to the 
> long-term health of the organization.
> 
> --RLB
> 
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 9:47 AM Randy Bush <[e-mail] 
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> 
>      >> Tooling is just one of the problems with XML2RFC. The real issue is
>      >> that XML2RFC is completely specific to the IETF. This translate into
>      >> training ...
>      > It also has been optimized for the production of RFCs. Also note that
>      > many changes in the v3 vocab just align the language with HTML (lists
>      > and tables come to mind).
> 
>     from an xml non-lover:
> 
>     xml2rfc rocks!  it produces the baroqe, designed by committee, internet
>     draft format from input which i can easily produce in my text editor.
> 
>     and the support, maintenance, and responsiveness of the tools team is
>     simply stunning.
> 
>     [ and for the poster who wished for a gooey, there is one ]
> 
>     thank you!
> 
>     randy
>