Re: BCP97bis and "freely available"

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 19 October 2021 02:58 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A225C3A13A0 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZUZLEQ6jvMJq for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:58:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x531.google.com (mail-pg1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB72E3A138F for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:58:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x531.google.com with SMTP id r2so18015540pgl.10 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:58:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6/9cJX80yAS380ZLbPgeYEhhJsKR9WVqlTePWrm9Wnw=; b=SY3DXO9LXeaxXGm6hHgcrk4NHaRQRN6c3IGnIsWAKxZov5PQtTYX6jpaxqGhN37QHJ vw2u0zvhXdXjAYqPwuwb+1YQPUylAis3VcOz2gt55HOA8+MHXUhA0dnt0jgfDYgJX72y iVQ8q95dcDTNf28JU1bTdNOqqSpMWHK5SBYhb1E2ol64MSw3la0eCcr3b7SLrC22Pqm7 zLXgokkwMl9s5MpuaGPtGqDyPjPktOiyphIdhoox3gNvKqnzOAc1lrOoNcGOzeBTO0WA vpZUYuYbkbnFIn1dnNi9deSpWWtffxz9ZfIUMq7bUataEFzPdASQLZe+HT048eTVc5kZ 7e2Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6/9cJX80yAS380ZLbPgeYEhhJsKR9WVqlTePWrm9Wnw=; b=2EWOnxt44DwU+61apRKskGHld9dywL0L9QckawaRZLZ2g5n+HKWvbivbL8pKNpT6bA ATZZJEtkJSUQlOO0krVA2MIJzZJy0+EhW6A2frzg1JtRAwW/eqDmVoiHxZqOmrQNFdYq HYsUe0peUkF33WumME0gE4fBBW5CC97q9KiBFD4zcYP7UOwQmcMysV4v/aZmK2dk+HLt 8hbIbkcFv+kDupN9zb10NKNweLpMIBo+OCQxItIEDb26J5gbvRdn3BmHclq9CCawc8P0 FAHM/0BSGMF+RXkR2pfyi6xONWYGuUKMSyc8UmjaL6TT6x9dOcYcsOntNLmy8Cb1nMC+ wD5w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5307EHviRcs4pRN7mRk3uTUPYDKwjkGGMy+9Q1t0NT7YLoPPr50Z JJMzB0kpKzwXSjbPW5M+iqE15ovlmEdtRQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxowqHykkAXAGBYRDIV7/hrj1glOsIlJ9YUYqwyCUl0U74Vl+5sKrzO1aFjPuQzv6uH+ERqdw==
X-Received: by 2002:a65:6187:: with SMTP id c7mr26590016pgv.317.1634612328684; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:102d:e801:db7:d041:a2d:ce65? ([2406:e003:102d:e801:db7:d041:a2d:ce65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f18sm14338854pfa.60.2021.10.18.19.58.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Oct 2021 19:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: BCP97bis and "freely available"
To: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu>
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <CAL0qLwbwvs2Cp_urgJ=hzc6yEMGDaz3C0xf6RQXRrB89wAx=Rw@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwa4ChOsuMkmoP_sAGv3Wn2AcSz1OkijmxZzP+MGvnwviA@mail.gmail.com> <849D7F9E-8AD4-4CE8-A66C-358FB1F2E6AE@tzi.org> <8E6C9FDEA828F341AA36F39C@PSB> <58bb1659-97c7-6a44-b833-27fe4c5702ed@gmail.com> <1cf0e986-9c0a-388b-a280-62d24c641148@comcast.net> <CAKr6gn2gez6uUqgdZUU5Ry8aqP4EaJM_w1+p8wODMUOMhgmO9Q@mail.gmail.com> <97822445-7dd9-2a30-e7bf-d0146ac3c77e@alumni.stanford.edu> <CAKr6gn3kXW0pSfJSAEdS6mXyM4hU5ayuHHEbvswkhsD_hnwrWg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc3c52e6-3a4e-b9ad-976e-888ed4c8ab39@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:58:46 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAKr6gn3kXW0pSfJSAEdS6mXyM4hU5ayuHHEbvswkhsD_hnwrWg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/z78KKA0Uuzr3zY3Q26av_DBbBBM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 02:58:55 -0000

On 19-Oct-21 13:28, George Michaelson wrote:
> Good to see. I'd say "wow, I think thats a change of posture" but who
> knows: maybe I was woefully misinformed at the time?

No, it was a significant change on the ITU side. Especially significant
because it was around June 1991 when Carl Malamud** and Tony Rutkowski
started project BRUNO to get the relevant CCITT standards on-line for
free.  The experiment didn't survive very long, and its 30th anniversary
is already past. The eventual change of policy was in 2007, says Google.

    Brian

** If you haven't read Carl's book "Exploring the Internet" you've missed
a treat, and he covers Project Bruno among much else.

> 
> It was a long time ago. nearly 30 years ago.
> 
> -G
> 
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 10:26 AM Randy Presuhn
> <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi -
>>
>> On 2021-10-18 4:03 PM, George Michaelson wrote:
>> ...
>>> So, the existence of some X-series documents outside the paywall is
>>> the exception, not the normality, as I understand it.
>> ...
>>
>>  From https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/publications/Pages/recs.aspx :
>> "The vast majority of all Recommendations are available in electronic
>> (PDF) form, free of charge to all, once the final, edited version is
>> published."
>>
>> For example, lots of interesting stuff is listed on
>> https://www.itu.int/itu-t/recommendations/index.aspx?ser=X
>>
>> Randy
>>
>