RE: Names on blue sheets

Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting> Wed, 16 April 2025 14:43 UTC

Return-Path: <andrew.campling@419.consulting>
X-Original-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FEB1D0AC98 for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Apr 2025 07:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=netorgft5189650.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KqpkV7Xv6uh9 for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Apr 2025 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from CWXP265CU009.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ukwestazon11021110.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.101.100.110]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C5C91D0AC85 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Apr 2025 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WoaLtrLzwPtoKmPGbsORKB96Bw4/hr7+2oRR+XV8zbYLoDLs6MMpUJz2hoYMCr8ULK441bYz5/mq6MSyB1X6ayMx+AjApaW48wGmjpQ8aLgSOpqxzMslr8Iqfhz+wdOMuPxloT+D9R7uNMXyspSGPTGWBzC0q94ELPUrlK/sJaAzMj/0kPNUlV2RB5paCIrZGPZu5CcKTdI8ulSxY3Gh7j0OPxlKwA9DWZEm5TEHeKywtsXrqyAybZYPiUqSMx2LIKTawMX75ddVeLqbphj8ylIrKe9aOHR/AegJrHFvYcUnu1S9x+rCnhFAUsjrahIhi2Yx9ei6iLrTiL2TxWHMCg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=w2iVOkRxmROm6DlcLnBd9gjRgEFHWjiBjKZjkdN7btE=; b=DiC2BEF/kvT0OLNJQauBxKjQn1gUNGIzbIxA/x2rVdd4potERAbmHPmOuOfxYnQAr4P3u2YvqEExuQC3yHPL8zvBEhHv8Zn5/qEUfh/Q0p5muQziHIlEC3fU1NqPoHEEvlp9fNViaKCfHYZvR9ad2WtrlBspRlNq+zoT1TQV1y2O2jgwIDMsGhMRCq/8lo3xyIYw4V8uxrTqN0MKihzRDFEEvYF0o6ylbSFYOALMZKAP3rk7Y7UktJk+qZ5NQNs6ZoXtX0aiiokGCDS9HVOFlkDzKCDmT25QM0X8h+UF8utPPl0nu+zw4HHD0H/DasSpyrDkyN+jA5Ej8ZG75l3C1w==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=419.consulting; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=419.consulting; dkim=pass header.d=419.consulting; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=NETORGFT5189650.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-NETORGFT5189650-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=w2iVOkRxmROm6DlcLnBd9gjRgEFHWjiBjKZjkdN7btE=; b=IJR3O7G9e1DRHd8u3K04IMvUdJdysgV6zxfk9kpIHUdkpweGCV0WRz0loIETeRxKzKQwm1uaXQ/8wKE3LOpwREOoRksP13I39T5F1aEiBLUwzbZs3NjePG+b756qMD5TzQSKVZWwpVtNIuflcB9V1QRJWPu5/LWwfTGwWVGiT/U=
Received: from LO2P265MB5160.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:253::13) by CWLP265MB2964.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:400:ce::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8655.22; Wed, 16 Apr 2025 14:42:30 +0000
Received: from LO2P265MB5160.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::aa2:215:563:824c]) by LO2P265MB5160.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::aa2:215:563:824c%2]) with mapi id 15.20.8655.018; Wed, 16 Apr 2025 14:42:30 +0000
From: Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting>
To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: RE: Names on blue sheets
Thread-Topic: Names on blue sheets
Thread-Index: AQHbrs/NCJV/cAhBcEGfEJfUIvn2LLOmWqsw
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 14:42:30 +0000
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB5160B81CF929356FE0DC0601C2BD2@LO2P265MB5160.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CAChr6Sz4ntZpQqLqAzw4+_9zp_EfkGuBKZYLHbgvmukXAGuEcg@mail.gmail.com> <9FE6E707-5F01-42B9-9D83-CB60402C8B32@ietf.org> <CAChr6SwgcD+=KZV+DJAvqGNC4yHwo5FhTud7ukZ0DEWFGE4d7w@mail.gmail.com> <9ce72630-4875-4771-803a-5d2472c767ce@cs.tcd.ie> <1787102263.36701.1744804996864@appsuite.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <1787102263.36701.1744804996864@appsuite.open-xchange.com>
Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=419.consulting;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: LO2P265MB5160:EE_|CWLP265MB2964:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 06d08612-ac9d-4f0d-e317-08dd7cf4eac5
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|366016|376014|1800799024|38070700018|7055299006;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:LO2P265MB5160.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(366016)(376014)(1800799024)(38070700018)(7055299006);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: n7rNkRz1jqJq/g9CK12atJGN8iyuEdechRZTbK9iJ0pFrp47JzjkHh8YBRhT5t2A2JKWkMHjCfq8rRnG+ArWT+4ClBddjG8OxPONDNccRffXMCIfMxqdigfPcAJ6a4x+YYb4yNeNl3733nDeQnbnzIlHzpAsLKJCVgSxhrMs1WASC6ETctbYb3o5of8oD6/OFBfaU2DzYA9BSgYBNl2zGMN4PdbxKprvXk8WJzrwkj8W5Fhx3ElplSlLDU9SSp7+LmW4b7DvqSLdE4hzym6dxB1K1o9LRpVWPdp4Q90lmZKjVzb0I9yHpXk6qVEGoC2OD7r2kiTeqSdqnin+eHlNHrIqCKVkhUt4UwGOcEHF4Mtm/GvN8NbZDtY9Dx5K0ha3jiHMJtgs1ph/nZ5VTbqwiqh9Qp/kA4cppsNdBEm4qbZoOj2Tc/lWF5dfJQVYiG/uGrOaJn5p7ceZbmWydY+oh22Xo9tYedn8qS/bQ7JHIh2EXZwCTwrwY0GTW1P1ntArb/jerCTtnGZI42dah9Vxl8xXEFeDJv7uJH6OOR37kfN+xnVotyxmeKWxLf8YtMSl9hGSGgqsPpqYVSNdwFHm1AcPHJ3KIz0+B0I4PbPqpUNB1Lauv4+tjFKqkVuUDQ0aMEb1WqRLiil0pHzNklkGKFr9zRTWttJZanTkDDKv+/NlT6ckLXE4yI0bhI9Lvi/a95U1q3HCd3pzMCte/zuxATd6qtGgZ4DDSIGBWxFcWpGZ+vUpiujE+XKKCAzqZEb/vDkoLC+glw0moSkrKwKlTR6UY6bJ0wMtCdXtlupb341hh0hIhtD0gRE4xXs0zDRS8Jor6ZNYCWNS79I6GxG9/CKl1FTOdwa5lg3eEP1FpYOZij+h7QahKcDeI5tsPCTF2wFkpBV8HBZR1KBWyhQGota/seumxqtdAYN8By3wE74qAnYL9TL6FZVgjrhkCEPUs/g8AVJeS2GzQC1p4cNst2YQ7O11dhg6Q9ViZZwq5Y1nHFwVF+xVX4iKko5cEQAxroFK0ZflH9mVsriUhRrX+O+p7N8Lt5+ytycgnwBXGNbuM2U+gHM6jgM9+X855lxvOkdRBj2edC0zW+8o+FyUdHC3vF9lGlxspb5M3hcHRcbBQnK9WPlAaoTQQmzOlxpa5rwg+t4ozWugN+xnPkdTNmIXa8dk+/I7U5gh4BnWg9kNALPYbjX5MnjUCKLJ/kZdH3r18ve8f74V3Lux1SDuR9EAes3v5cLJvZLgLQKPCyR0o7MB8f6xYowhyIrNjDP8snaBUisxxm9qq7IU+xdBSn4UF+NtzxdOScOyPljG5cSPNIYrhQtoLiVVvfsh27V/HEoZxEf/aavtM1Kz9j04/Ana2TStiUlpH5/zHksKDsH/4mLr79xr56L6i6lHugPN0KOPbItzKlEcAr3WelErcilW6q1ZT7mBET+5dGDo8b1ZR5rIyrCwetlTln74y4mXLcKSsehVAV9m1d5BnppkF6xFZcDoLz7CxffS/IiOIpGptczSuypA0e6w+KsbI++b7Iqh5Gp3W5jfSV47vYGLhYlKCASWlPo28pDIw64puJqFBmJkhiGm3dsveR82+lcbmon8tEuxDOh9X3OUfoXKsQ==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: 419.consulting
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: LO2P265MB5160.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 06d08612-ac9d-4f0d-e317-08dd7cf4eac5
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Apr 2025 14:42:30.8932 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9c2ced3e-7522-4755-87dc-f983abc66ec3
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: BN1VcjwvvDLiSP/e77agusn4yzo4ekSw4F1aAQ12RzJCCIHkgwXoKa9db7zhUhJ0lltbQrOttPdKKNVs/2HDYk0ppp3aiCHyuD9xvB0NsqM=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CWLP265MB2964
Message-ID-Hash: R46HPDWQ6KJQPQAY5DVPUXHBO4TI7EMA
X-Message-ID-Hash: R46HPDWQ6KJQPQAY5DVPUXHBO4TI7EMA
X-MailFrom: andrew.campling@419.consulting
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ietf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/zS1Z52eYa9MiViLZfvEgGtbNN6c>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ietf-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ietf-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-leave@ietf.org>

On 2025-04-16 13:03, Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> wrote:
> In any case, the only case I have seen of people not signing with their full name is the UK NCSC employees one, and I have seen them do the same at every conference. I do not know if this is an agency policy and what are the reasons, but perhaps, if lists weren't made public on the web, they would have less need to do so.

I'm aware of a fair number of people in civil society that use a similar naming convention, especially where they engage in relatively sensitive areas of policy work.  It would be disappointing if we adopted a practice that acted as a barrier to engagement without a compelling reason.

Looking more broadly, I think there is a much more important issue affecting blue sheets and that is the sometimes significant discrepancy between the number of people in the room and the number of names on the sheets.  I've noted this for in-person attendees at IETF meetings, where some people only sign in to Datatracker if they decide to approach the mic line, and only then if the chairs are insistent on using Meetecho to manage the queue.  I've also seen this at some interim meetings in the past, with 30%+ of attendees being invisible to the blue sheets, although I think this might be fixed now if interim meetings all use Meetecho?

I'd prefer to see priority given to capturing all attendees on blue sheets before concerning ourselves with the separate question of the acceptable public naming convention for Datatracker.  


Andrew