Re: tone policing

Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Tue, 03 September 2019 16:09 UTC

Return-Path: <adam@nostrum.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED386120024 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.98
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BIXpW4kFduVY for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 09:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56BA9120013 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 09:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Svantevit.local (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x83G9gCS040387 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 11:09:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1567526983; bh=2vPP7FzeuwqAFVTj+QKu8FdcOefRAPPv1wFfiKzvdbU=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ZPoiqAXa7/CRioE4EoZf7VcEtKUi5Zmaaa+Q4RdNosI/lBlsAfXxdIM+LycM+HIU3 X0k8W9Elzw5eH6s8j4kdxmf94BIf6tcEyO3YCwIO7dBY018NqgLtrPAvHwEhAZ2Fz9 IqwhMqYtRl3EvyD8dXtgbjTptzEVBAqthUggp+L4=
X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Svantevit.local
Subject: Re: tone policing
To: IETF list <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <964a7d97-f146-4d2e-aa3e-d39fc08f6f76@Mikes-IPhone> <20190901195210.GA27269@kduck.mit.edu> <f4a03464-9c9d-9ee5-088a-586e2bb326b1@comcast.net> <4100d3fa-3bba-41dc-3df2-bf2d3dc0f667@network-heretics.com> <6abdd246-6ac0-7369-35b8-e299373eee64@gmail.com> <3a707945-2a88-66a1-f5c0-006fae1c77c6@network-heretics.com> <B21A8972-C958-4468-9C2E-73E1773B1C91@mnot.net> <a76b3022-d94e-32c1-97c5-45cfa347481d@network-heretics.com> <BC82596B-E402-41D4-AD22-474E98F2FE86@mnot.net> <24dff788-b36c-bb3f-6cf0-39ee0ddac688@network-heretics.com> <E3F1AA5E-3D2E-40B0-8A16-44091AA9618D@mnot.net> <a0988541-45d3-198b-bdfb-6c31fe110183@network-heretics.com> <0d492a1b-c373-ccae-2274-3e5984c4caab@gmail.com> <198bf00d-efd4-513e-5d68-91f28d7f08dc@network-heretics.com> <1956229885.2347860.1567482603842@mail.yahoo.com> <c1e1cf94-662e-e039-609b-a39a7b031529@nostrum.com> <cbba54fc-708d-1ffb-0d24-4494942c94cb@lounge.org>
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
Message-ID: <70713c32-4b3c-e3a8-be77-4b230b5965a4@nostrum.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 11:09:40 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <cbba54fc-708d-1ffb-0d24-4494942c94cb@lounge.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/zcnKy4ou-TWF120NlIPqWLTixxA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 16:09:46 -0000

On 9/2/19 11:49 PM, Dan Harkins wrote:
> Furthermore, your email
> is a kind of "tone policing" that has been discussed here. You're 
> stating that the
> speaker should watch how he says what he says because it could be 
> misinterpreted.


This isn't about tone. It's explicitly about what was meant, not how it 
was said. "I hope you die" is the kind of so-over-the-line ad hominem 
that it gets used as an *example* of an ad hominem. I was hoping Lloyd 
could clarify that's not what he meant. His silence is concerning.

I mean, I get it. It wasn't meant literally, and it was included because 
Lloyd thought it sounded witty. But it's still an attack on the 
volunteers who attempt to keep this list usable. Not what they've done, 
and not the role they're serving, but their actual persons. And that's 
the exact kind of thing we had people lining up at the microphone in 
Montreal to say isn't okay any more.

/a