Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2119-update-00.txt
Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> Tue, 09 August 2016 22:03 UTC
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From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
To: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2119-update-00.txt
References: <147077254472.30640.13738163813175851232.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CALaySJLHx7ytgZqZ9zQXA3vVSU-pNggQQs+QiDnzQ4tBEH5VAQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMC_hb_BWM5iEpvaWBQY_QsDBZcJDGC9WdcD_O+KHX=64g@mail.gmail.com> <tslmvklk571.fsf@mit.edu> <defc83cb-72a8-f64f-658e-256d7ed76b27@dcrocker.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2016 18:03:21 -0400
In-Reply-To: <defc83cb-72a8-f64f-658e-256d7ed76b27@dcrocker.net> (Dave Crocker's message of "Tue, 9 Aug 2016 14:33:25 -0700")
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Cc: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>, dcrocker@bbiw.net, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
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>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> writes: Dave> On 8/9/2016 2:22 PM, Sam Hartman wrote: >> In general, I don't distinguish between caps in running text, but >> all the screen readers I've used (including even the one on >> Android) can distinguish caps if you ask them too. Dave> I'd expect that change in screen reader mode to add quite a Dave> bit of noise the the output, as all the case changes are Dave> noted, where only a tiny number matter. Low signal to noise Dave> like that seems likely to be distracting, at best. Yes, that's generally why it's available as an option but not on by default. Being able to use must and should in running text where the keyword meaning is not intended is valuable in writing RFCs. "can" is the right choice some of the time, but not always. Obviously, taste and correctness matter. It still won't be a good idea to say "The reserved bit must be zero on send and must be ignored on receive," arguing "Well, we don't want to use MUST because some implementations don't do that so it can't be normative." The point of lower case keywords shouldn't be to allow people to be sloppy and to avoid normative text to make a false consensus easier. This SHOULD be about writing clearer RFCs and not having to contort language when should and must are perfectly good non-normative things to say.
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John C Klensin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John R Levine
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Crocker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John Levine
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Randall Gellens (IETF)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Joe Touch
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Gmail
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John C Klensin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Crocker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Pete Resnick
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Joe Touch
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Crocker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Pete Resnick
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Julian Reschke
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Julian Reschke
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ted Lemon
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ben Campbell
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… HANSEN, TONY L
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John C Klensin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Barry Leiba
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ted Lemon
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Stewart Bryant
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John C Klensin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John C Klensin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Crocker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John C Klensin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Barry Leiba
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Doug Ewell
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Cridland
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Barry Leiba
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Time Warner Cable
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Barry Leiba
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ted Lemon
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ted Lemon
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John Leslie
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ted Lemon
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Stewart Bryant
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Stewart Bryant
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Stewart Bryant
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Stewart Bryant
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Randy Bush
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Crocker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John R Levine
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… John Levine
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Joe Touch
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Sam Hartman
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Dave Crocker
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Sam Hartman
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Barry Leiba
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Stephan Wenger
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Barry Leiba
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Ted Hardie
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-leiba-rfc2… Paul Hoffman