Re: [Igmp-mld-bis] IGMPv3 / MLDv2 survey

Olufemi Komolafe <femi@arista.com> Wed, 05 February 2020 10:00 UTC

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From: Olufemi Komolafe <femi@arista.com>
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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 10:00:46 +0000
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Cc: Suneesh Babu <suneesh@juniper.net>, "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com>, "igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org" <igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org>, "michael.mcbride@futurewei.com" <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>, Timothy Winters <twinters@iol.unh.edu>, "stig@venaas.com" <stig@venaas.com>, "N.Leymann@telekom.de" <N.Leymann@telekom.de>, "mmcbride7@gmail.com" <mmcbride7@gmail.com>
To: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
References: <6C716B06-1A87-4BA0-A535-6D0073D95E22@arista.com> <C1BD52A0-7F4F-41CE-BA66-A850D1737FCF@arista.com> <31CBF61F-94A9-4F7E-BA73-20811451B01D@cisco.com> <BYAPR13MB28073A3460918E6EE4420E97F4600@BYAPR13MB2807.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CAHANBtLMecXZVvprQHw6xA6HFJunDS-YcVhxUMKyHQ1qqLb7XA@mail.gmail.com> <5CB9D3E2-64A7-4D39-B67E-788A17FD6A14@jisc.ac.uk> <CE94B44B-ACDA-43D6-A054-E4E2A4193D31@arista.com> <C6AC0C7E-7ECA-4EE1-B9D2-A654C2B250EF@jisc.ac.uk> <4A654A02-88D0-42C6-9044-68E48E76290F@jisc.ac.uk> <86787B9B-02A0-4B25-9DEB-7A4A2A26E8FE@arista.com> <BYAPR13MB280753663F14B24BD54FDC97F4600@BYAPR13MB2807.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <2A40F6CF-7E6C-4C53-956D-C3CAEA376D99@jisc.ac.uk> <82014633-1BB1-4B32-83B7-95D33C010360@arista.com> <A38A6624-DFAE-455E-845C-D9B88A67302B@jisc.ac.uk> <CAHANBt+2md6BHgr-ggAQnF2sdQrE9f=K_y00AMh3gU=QxnNWFw@mail.gmail.com> <BFBB2440-1D28-40E2-AEA9-972BEBA56789@jisc.ac.uk> <B258C4F8-93B4-41B7-8794-1F898EC03A0B@arista.com> <D1C8FC97-67B8-4FAA-A844-BBA89BA64645@jisc.ac.uk> <CAL3FGfx+rXPKJU2nbdOcyX52CqOFt-Q1gen4P8Mo+iPcKeh85Q@mail.gmail.com> <71DCE250-2C31-45A5-9FB3-A28B0D1305CA@jisc.ac.uk> <18D9E051-E4A2-4F07-8014-A6D831275675@arista.com> <LEJPR01MB03770F55E1193A3AD6C46E1B984A0@LEJPR01MB0377.DEUPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.DE> <89CA429B-3399-481E-B61F-3CB7284713B1@jisc.ac.uk> <CAOSSMjXK1PJ16ktG7EB3J_vhu_PHe7-t3m+-tb4RB4f8QksZXA@mail.gmail.com> <99F589B6-C428-48D3-9771-545BA02D0A4F@cisco.com> <613E447A-8A76-4BAB-AB90-91E0BBEEC608@jisc.ac.uk> <CDF32987-CDAF-4BD0-8FA7-0D1A4BA620C2@juniper.net> <D474191E-DE1A-48F3-8BB6-B03E3B339E71@jisc.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Igmp-mld-bis] IGMPv3 / MLDv2 survey
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Hi Tim,

Please have you had a chance to update the survey?  It’d be good to get the survey out soon  so we can start analysing the results and moving this effort forward…..

Regards,
Femi
> On 16 Jan 2020, at 10:13, Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Apologies, this had completely slipped my mind, and no one nagged me about it.  I’ll look at it today.
> 
> Tim
> 
>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 05:02, Suneesh Babu <suneesh@juniper.net <mailto:suneesh@juniper.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tim,
>>  
>> Is there any update on the new version of the survey or Is the survey over(survey link is no more working)?
>>  
>> Regards,
>> Suneesh
>>  
>> From: Igmp-mld-bis <igmp-mld-bis-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>>
>> Date: Tuesday, 26 November 2019 at 3:28 PM
>> To: "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com <mailto:mankamis@cisco.com>>
>> Cc: "igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org>" <igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org>>, "michael.mcbride@futurewei.com <mailto:michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>" <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com <mailto:michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>>, Timothy Winters <twinters@iol.unh.edu <mailto:twinters@iol.unh.edu>>, "stig@venaas.com <mailto:stig@venaas.com>" <stig@venaas.com <mailto:stig@venaas.com>>, "N.Leymann@telekom.de <mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de>" <N.Leymann@telekom.de <mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de>>, "mmcbride7@gmail.com <mailto:mmcbride7@gmail.com>" <mmcbride7@gmail.com <mailto:mmcbride7@gmail.com>>, "femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org>" <femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Igmp-mld-bis] IGMPv3 / MLDv2 survey
>>  
>> OK, I’ll look to address the comments to date and send a new version to this list very soon.
>>  
>> Tim
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Nov 2019, at 15:39, Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com <mailto:mankamis@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Looks good 
>>>  
>>> From: Igmp-mld-bis <igmp-mld-bis-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Timothy Winters <twinters@iol.unh.edu <mailto:twinters@iol.unh.edu>>
>>> Date: Monday, November 25, 2019 at 7:03 PM
>>> To: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>>
>>> Cc: "igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org>" <igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org>>, "michael.mcbride@futurewei.com <mailto:michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>" <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com <mailto:michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>>, "stig@venaas.com <mailto:stig@venaas.com>" <stig@venaas.com <mailto:stig@venaas.com>>, "Mankamana Mishra (mankamis)" <mankamis@cisco.com <mailto:mankamis@cisco.com>>, "N.Leymann@telekom.de <mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de>" <N.Leymann@telekom.de <mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de>>, "mmcbride7@gmail.com <mailto:mmcbride7@gmail.com>" <mmcbride7@gmail.com <mailto:mmcbride7@gmail.com>>, "femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org>" <femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:femi=40arista.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Igmp-mld-bis] IGMPv3 / MLDv2 survey
>>>  
>>> I looked at the latest survey and I don't have any additional comments.
>>>  
>>> ~Tim
>>>  
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 8:21 AM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>> Hi, 
>>>>  
>>>> You may have missed a more recent email Nic, as I fixed the "more info" issue… see https://jisc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/survey-on-implementations-and-deployment-of-igmpv3-and-mld-2 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/jisc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/survey-on-implementations-and-deployment-of-igmpv3-and-mld-2__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QuxYuF7jXnfqCIdXTTNpI_-DuutZKh3UD2MHGUqMw6RmAJ9jpbM1uSZcSkf9G5c$>
>>>>  
>>>> What I need is a list of things to fix, then I’ll clone, edit and rerelease the survey so we can go live.
>>>>  
>>>> Tim
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 25 Nov 2019, at 12:53, N.Leymann@telekom.de <mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>  
>>>>> looks good.
>>>>>  
>>>>> One remark. There are several “more info” buttons, but the info itself seems to be missing. I think we should at least for some of the questions have some more details/explanation (specifically questions related to the potential problems with the fallback between versions).
>>>>>  
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>  
>>>>> Nic
>>>>>  
>>>>> Von: Igmp-mld-bis <igmp-mld-bis-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis-bounces@ietf.org>> Im Auftrag von Olufemi Komolafe
>>>>> Gesendet: Montag, 25. November 2019 13:16
>>>>> An: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc..ac.uk>>
>>>>> Cc: Stig Venaas <stig@venaas.com <mailto:stig@venaas.com>>; Mike McBride <mmcbride7@gmail.com <mailto:mmcbride7@gmail.com>>; Michael McBride <michael.mcbride@futurewei.com <mailto:michael.mcbride@futurewei.com>>; Mankamana Mishra (mankamis) <mankamis@cisco.com <mailto:mankamis@cisco.com>>; igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org <mailto:igmp-mld-bis@ietf.org>
>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Igmp-mld-bis] IGMPv3 / MLDv2 survey
>>>>>  
>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>  
>>>>> Thanks.  Looks good to me.  I don’t have anything to add other than my earlier suggestions which you’ve replied to.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Anyone else got any comments?
>>>>>  
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Femi
>>>>>  
>>>>>> On 21 Nov 2019, at 15:07, Tim Chown <Tim..Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac..uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Hi, 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Can I get a final list of changes required?
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> It’s now at this URL, same pw of ietfpim.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> https://jisc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/survey-on-implementations-and-deployment-of-igmpv3-and-mld-2 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/jisc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/survey-on-implementations-and-deployment-of-igmpv3-and-mld-2__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QuxYuF7jXnfqCIdXTTNpI_-DuutZKh3UD2MHGUqMw6RmAJ9jpbM1uSZcSkf9G5c$>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2019, at 11:41, Mike McBride <mmcbride7@gmail.com <mailto:mmcbride7@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Feel free to use pim-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:pim-chairs@ietf.org> for questions unless you want to
>>>>>>> use one of your own emails.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> thanks, its looking good.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 2:42 AM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Some points picked up on below, the rest I’ll wait for consensus...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2019, at 10:34, Olufemi Komolafe <femi@arista.com <mailto:femi@arista.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The survey looks really good!  Thanks for helping with this; much appreciated :-)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Please see inline for some responses….
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2019, at 09:44, Tim Chown <Tim..Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac..uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 5:41 AM Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk <mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apologies for the delay in setting this up.  I have launched a (draft) survey at:
>>>>>>>> https://jisc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/survey-on-implementations-and-deployment-of-igmpv3-and-mld <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/jisc.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/survey-on-implementations-and-deployment-of-igmpv3-and-mld__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QuxYuF7jXnfqCIdXTTNpI_-DuutZKh3UD2MHGUqMw6RmAJ9jpbM1uSZcJGbazMk$>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have set a password of ietfpim for now.  I used an IETF logo rather than the Jisc one.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have tried to add some logic to allow vendors and/or operators to use the same questionnaire.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Please test vigorously and check it captures the spirit of the draft correctly.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Some questions for you -
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - which questions should be compulsory?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’m not sure we need to make any questions compulsory.  Hopefully folks will answer most/all the questions.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - should the anonymous question come before we ask names etc?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes, I think that the question about anonymity should come before asking for the name/contact info.  I do think we should still ask for the name/contact info, even if they indicate they want to complete it anonymously, as supplying this personal info will probably make people feel a bit more accountable and so will likely give their replies a bit more consideration.  I think we should clarify what we mean by “anonymously” by changing the question to:
>>>>>>>> “Do you wish to complete the survey anonymously (in which case you will not be identified in the report)?"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - should the issues with fallback be a y/n answer (as is) or a “What issues have you had with…” free text?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think the free text idea is better.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> - I added a final “any other comments” type question.  Is that ok?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yep, good idea.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Also, some other thoughts…...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think we should change:
>>>>>>>> Would you like to complete the part of the survey targeted at vendors and host implementors?
>>>>>>>> + Yes
>>>>>>>> + No
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Which part of the survey would you like to complete?  The part targeted at
>>>>>>>> + Vendor and host implementors?
>>>>>>>> + Network operators?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The problem with that is the some people might want to do both, but also that the survey tool doesn’t support such a flow; if you choose the implementor one when you get to the end of that you hit the operator section, so I need to ask twice, whichever way it’s done anyway.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In case they find our list insufficient, should we add a box in which they can write in “Any other feature” after the list we provide for the “Which IGMPv3 and MLDv2 features do you use?” question?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Will numbering the questions help processing the results etc?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They are numbered, I just don’t have that turned on.  I could do so.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Also, should we put a contact email address at the start in case people have questions?  Perhaps the WG chairs?  Or your own?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We can do that - if so let me know whose details to add.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Femi
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> While you consider those, I’ll find out why each question has a pointless “More info” box next to it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Bes6t wishes,
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -- 
>>>> Igmp-mld-bis mailing list
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