Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs
ned+ima@mrochek.com Sat, 13 August 2011 22:15 UTC
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Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 15:08:48 -0700
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Subject: Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs
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> looking for something else (= state of the art wrt EAI > and SPF) yesterday I stumbled over the "81 IETF EAI > meeting minutes" in the mailing list archive, with a > note about "UTF-8 in Message-IDs". > That was certainly (bad) news from my POV, and whining > about it off list I got the tip that waiting for an > IETF Last Call is a bad plan when this could be also > addressed before WG Last Call. > From my POV the "globally unique forever Message-ID" > in mail and news is in essence an early form of what > is now a GUID/UUID in other protocols. Maybe a bit > more so, in theory there could be UUID collisions, > and that's not possible for Message-IDs (in theory). > This theory is relevant for NetNews, gateways from or > to NetNews, mail and news threading, APOP, and likely > other use cases I'm not aware of. > Nobody would say replace hex. by UTF-8 in GUID/UUIDs, > therefore I fail to see the point of trying something > in this direction in Message-IDs. Gateway operators > stating that UTF-8 in Message-IDs would be no problem > in practise, or that this would be only a minor point > when they adopt EAI, might convince me that I'm only > paranoid, but I doubt it. > And the "EAI experiment" phase did not test this plan, > there's no evidence I'm aware of that UTF-8 in Message- > IDs is harmless. I'm sure it is not, just as utf-8 in addresses is far from harmless and is going to require all sorts of infrastructure changes. But I fail to see how this is in any way relevant. We're defining a new message format here that *cannot* be downgraded to the old format and retain all semantics. This is true irrespective of how message-ids are handled. As such, utf-8 in message-ids is a small additional cost. It's also a cost that I doubt can be avoided no matter what the specification says. Once utf-8 is in domains in messages it's going to leak into message-ids no matter what the specifications say. > Did you really check all RFCs using > or mentioning Message-IDs for potential side-effects > of introducing UTF-8 in the "local", "unique", "left" > etc. part of a Message-ID? Nope. Given the approach the WG is taking to this problem, such an analysis would be a pointless waste of time. Maybe, if we were taking the MIME approach, such a check would make sense. But we're not doing that. > E.g., does it fly with the > Message-ID concept in APOP and CRAM-MD5, or do you > intend something in the direction of "updates 2195" > to make it work? Why would that be coupled to this new message format? Ned
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John Levine
- [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Dave CROCKER
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John Levine
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs ned+ima
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Chris Newman
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Dave CROCKER
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Julien ÉLIE
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Julien ÉLIE
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John Levine
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Julien ÉLIE
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Julien ÉLIE
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Julien ÉLIE
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Frank Ellermann
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Charles Lindsey
- Re: [EAI] UTF-8 in Message-IDs Julien ÉLIE