Re: [imapext] General Request for Assignment (imap-keywords) (was: [JMAP] SMIME Attachments)

Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com> Tue, 14 November 2017 14:07 UTC

Return-Path: <brong@fastmailteam.com>
X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F00120713 for <imapext@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:07:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.72
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmailteam.com header.b=l0HpylwD; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=U/4jLz6O
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yKS5VLIlzmmU for <imapext@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:06:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63FE41200E5 for <imapext@ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:06:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9146120C7A for <imapext@ietf.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:06:58 -0500 (EST)
Received: from web6 ([10.202.2.216]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:06:58 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= fastmailteam.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date :from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=jlcPDOZliml6ru73h kg2Pj2nQMsnSGfFwsRY7nPEdQc=; b=l0HpylwDPGkbcU6PGM41DJdlfqwR29HLY hYWHwxIt/zAJG5+iUjWHwQ/UvbswFxQjmL8V8ru2ilRbEhYUWM5DOGoPh6z4DQYy j3vfYNSBwrx/rorjG0QDDTIJmaDo6BFuoQZ6K78BwdzhofKd6ALF7KLiNXYznsj2 xOEuFePSJq96cpQrOpJsgMCLJBcafyZ/bsx8nUWS0xP4OCjSxuzQgH9KcQLpZeO4 vc2XnVvco0V4HjiCiCTlAkYw3+eHcFodYMOvNdMMhO9lPgO9i1lU2SeR809gFVEn uN5+AUoZJVYs0NgA6WszZgwfdDebaDjYhirUAyyuj92sThC89xLcw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=jlcPDO Zliml6ru73hkg2Pj2nQMsnSGfFwsRY7nPEdQc=; b=U/4jLz6OuZvxkUg1W0aAiV 7bbZfpJDViTzU9kQTrwqHBEBIEyfpYlsjPctnp6EyxnxLS+h+aHF4FcVLquyMYB0 fCQJyrAsNgYCaKI5Jw8Rb/KxwK9yTZz661ujYxlz5ml6GxcNBqEq4NUxPs4c60EE o7Qu0+hVIt7nWRSN7XUpK4JEiVSNL/b2DsB8NwHccH5bqWgxsFzjlbW6n0ZP0sSo 5dfRoVcUHtotZInFY/uNbkIu4KTD/6Nivk5ozh3SQgwsPgUR7Ouz7WqK/LQ7vWe6 cBDQ+IWOplFHLSiGBJlYca152sOInqlE0AQSCiumFnR3nYRGhPe0grL9rocmbzBQ ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:gvgKWp7pRnm_XynfhHWQq4YATF7H5UkG3yI2dXDkOXZLpxldX9gIZg>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 62CAD48020; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:06:58 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <1510668418.767816.1172078600.47C2F0F2@webmail.messagingengine.com>
From: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmailteam.com>
To: imapext@ietf.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_----------=_15106684187678160"
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-f89283c9
In-Reply-To: <c2f0b35e-1925-4769-9a22-c6663db1eb53@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
References: <CACZ1GipM4+91KL00_YDcUHSF0eVnjh8vZAddbk869O4J1w9ZfA@mail.gmail.com> <c2f0b35e-1925-4769-9a22-c6663db1eb53@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 01:06:58 +1100
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/imapext/6o3qe3enwta7BOaeO1h1uMK_nck>
Subject: Re: [imapext] General Request for Assignment (imap-keywords) (was: [JMAP] SMIME Attachments)
X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions <imapext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/imapext>, <mailto:imapext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/imapext/>
List-Post: <mailto:imapext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:imapext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext>, <mailto:imapext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 14:07:01 -0000

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017, at 19:25, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> sorry about the late response. I suck at the moment.
> 
> I don't understand the semantics here.
> 
> If present, it means that someone has checked and found an encrypted
> attachment. And if absent, it means nothing. There may or may
> not be an> encrypted attachment.
> 
> So my question is, what advantage does this provide over checking the> bodystructure?

The usecase is that the entire message is encrypted as a single blob,
but it contains an attachment.  The client wants to mark that so that
other clients know it has an attachment.
There are questions about that being a metadata leak that haven't been
addressed.
There are questions that Barry and I spoke about briefly on Saturday
about pairing it with a $HasNoEncryptedAttachment or something so you
can tell that it's been checked already, which led to a general
discussion about paired keywords and what it means if they're both set
and wouldn't it be nice if we had tristate keywords and what about per-message-
annotations and doesn't everything suck.
But yeah, I'm pretty sure the intention was just that clients would use
it to communicate to each other something about the content of the
message inside the related opaque blob that is the message, in a case
where a user has multiple clients that all know how to decrypt the
message, but the server doesn't.
I have no idea where that most  idea of the server setting the flag in
Vaibhav's most recent email came from - the whole point in the original
scenario is that the server doesn't know anything about the content of
the email.
Anyway, I don't think the whole way this would work has been well
thought out yet.
Bron.

--
  Bron Gondwana, CEO, FastMail Pty Ltd
  brong@fastmailteam.com