Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a new WG: JMAP
Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Tue, 15 November 2016 07:02 UTC
Return-Path: <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2429212944D; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:02:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ycYK07uiOmpG; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [68.183.62.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E64FB1295DD; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:02:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01Q7BOQE9K5C00XCHW@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:57:44 -0800 (PST)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET="us-ascii"
Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01Q7B17DMV6O011H9Q@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:57:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-id: <01Q7BOQC0GGA011H9Q@mauve.mrochek.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 22:38:53 -0800
From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 15 Nov 2016 06:49:10 +0900" <CAPt1N1nOOCc-+dzgBOcUMVBZKOFP008h1f9kBmHquxZWcEmgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1478539079.1706686.780110457.75B1F9CF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <a786d82d-7134-c7bc-24ef-5dfb56e7bbac@isode.com> <56DA516EAC53C07E3F453BA6@JcK-HP8200> <58220833.4000806@gmail.com> <01Q73SYPHLDI011H9Q@mauve.mrochek.com> <5F4EE3F805C40EF25D1E0E57@JcK-HP8200> <01Q7B16YQ1IO011H9Q@mauve.mrochek.com> <CAPt1N1nOOCc-+dzgBOcUMVBZKOFP008h1f9kBmHquxZWcEmgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/imapext/_UeDYR9EwlEERIJbZB6n0u75Bpc>
Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, ietf-smtp@ietf.org, Doug Royer <douglasroyer@gmail.com>, "imapext@ietf.org" <imapext@ietf.org>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
Subject: Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a new WG: JMAP
X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions <imapext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/imapext>, <mailto:imapext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/imapext/>
List-Post: <mailto:imapext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:imapext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext>, <mailto:imapext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:02:57 -0000
> I agree with almost everything you said here, Ned, except for the idea that > offline isn't important. For those of us who travel internationally, being > able to look up travel info on your phone before you have your > international SIM is crucial, and this is just one example of a situation > where this is important. There's a difference between being able to operate offline and a protocol specifically designed to support offline operation. As you note, the former is still useful, but is, as Doug notes, mostly a matter of client support. (Unfortunately, I suspect that as a practical matter you're going to have ever-increasing difficulty getting client developers to prioritize it.) To the extent it's a protocol issue, it's mostly a subset of the mobile sync problem. Or, to put it another way, it seems the mobile sync problem has more requirements and is more constrained than the offline sync problem. And for better or worse, the design focus of IMAP was and is on the offline sync problem. All that said, it's not entirely clear to me that the design focus of the current crop of JMAP proposals is geared towards the mobile client sync problem either. At least some of what I've seen seems more oriented towards support of business workflows, which is a very different (and IMO much simpler) problem. Ned
- [imapext] Fwd: Request to form a new WG: JMAP Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … John C Klensin
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ned Freed
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … John C Klensin
- Re: [imapext] Fwd: Request to form a new WG: JMAP Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Adrien de Croy
- Re: [imapext] Request to form a new WG: JMAP Julien ÉLIE
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Doug Royer
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ned Freed
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … John C Klensin
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Doug Royer
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ned Freed
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … John C Klensin
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Neil Jenkins
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Tony Finch
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ned Freed
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ned Freed
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ted Lemon
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Doug Royer
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ted Lemon
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Bron Gondwana
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ned Freed
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Ted Lemon
- [imapext] offline mode, was Re: [ietf-smtp] Fwd: … Tony Finch
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Doug Royer
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Fwd: Request to form a … Bron Gondwana
- [imapext] Further discussions of JMAP Alexey Melnikov
- [imapext] I moved to jmap@ietf.org Doug Royer
- Re: [imapext] [ietf-smtp] Request to form a new W… Jacob Palme
- Re: [imapext] offline mode, was Re: [ietf-smtp] F… Brandon Long