[Int-area] CLNP rants (was: Re: draft-eckert-intarea-functional-addr-internets-00.txt)

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:25:02AM +1200, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > From a background POV it is worth noting ISO 8473 which is in deployment with multi-type variable length address.
> 
> Pretty ugly and limited though, and as I understand it the major (unclassified) deployment, in the airline trade, is trying to migrate away. I have no idea if there are classified deployments, but if so, I expect they use the non-variable GOSIP format.

Maybe a side-thread better moved over to intenet-history ?
At least let me change the subject.  But i am curious,
because before IPv6 came along i was very
much hoping to see benefits of CLNP to go into IP-NG.

I am specifically a fan of routing host-addresses within a domain
because i think its the mayor reason for Ethernet subnets to eat IP
for breakfast (displaying more and more L3 at the edge). Even back
in the beginning of the 90th i did do IP host routing with RIP for
multi-homed hosts. So i had hoped IPv6 to include this benefit
of CLNP. Or at least a decade later MIF.

No memory of the specific of variable length addressing in CLNP though
I know i had different length addresses in CLNP deployment in the 90th,
but within a university i did (of course?) not recognize any of the
extension/operational benefits that much.

Btw: Completely agree the administrative decision for IETF not to invest
into CLNP given the ownership of the protocol by a politicised SDO,
but re-using good idea instead of NIH would really be nice. 

Cheers
    Toerless

> I think ISO 8473 is a pretty good model of how not to do it.
> 
> > It is also worth noting that SA is different from DA to the extent that 
> it may not belong in the network layer header of the outgoing packet. The 
> SA is arguably a function of the payload and the application. Indeed some 
> MPLS OAM solutions do just that by making the return address implicit in the arrival LSP, or a parameter in a payload TLV. SA as in IP is arguably 
> just a convenience for a simplified method of operating an application.
> 
> My favourite article on that topic is https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/FUCAM-CL-TR-849.pdf
> 
>    Brian
> 
> > 
> > Stewart
> > 
> > Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >> On 13 Jul 2021, at 00:05, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >> Dear Int-area
> >>
> >> As attached below, i have written up an idea about why and how variable-length
> >> addresses in the network layer would be useful for many limited domain 
> internetworks,
> >> but also how they could provide a simple and easily extensible framework to
> >> add additional semantics (the likes of multicast, BIER, ICN), and also 
> make it easier 
> >> to express the programmability that SRv6 introduced.
> >>
> >> Would very much welcome discussion/feedback, and will be asking for a slot
> >> to present/discuss this int-area 111.
> >>
> >> Note that the -00 writeup is mostly inspirational for what i think the 
> cool
> >> things one could do with it are and to explain the concepts.
> >>
> >> Obviously, if/when there is interest in this
> >> direction, the harder work of figuring out how to best introduce this
> >> incrementally, and ideally backward compatible into existing networks wold
> >> be the next big set of items to work out.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>    Toerless
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 01:00:25PM -0700, [e-mail] wrote:
> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-eckert-intarea-functional-addr-internets-00.txt
> >>> has been successfully submitted by Toerless Eckert and posted to the
> >>> IETF repository.
> >>>
> >>> Name:        draft-eckert-intarea-functional-addr-internets
> >>> Revision:    00
> >>> Title:        Functional Addressing (FA) for internets with Independent Network Address Spaces (IINAS)
> >>> Document date:    2021-07-12
> >>> Group:        Individual Submission
> >>> Pages:        30
> >>> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-eckert-intarea-functional-addr-internets-00.txt
> >>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-intarea-functional-addr-internets/
> >>> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-eckert-intarea-functional-addr-internets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Abstract:
> >>>   Recent work has raised interest in exploring network layer addressing
> >>>   that is more flexible than fixed-length addressing as used in IPv4
> >>>   (32 bit) and IPv6 (128 bit).
> >>>
> >>>   The reasons for the interest include both support for multiple and
> >>>   potentially novel address semantics, but also optimizations of
> >>>   addressing for existing semantics such as unicast tailored not for
> >>>   the global Internet but to better support private networks / limited
> >>>   domains.
> >>>
> >>>   This memo explores in the view of the author yet little explored
> >>>   reasons for more flexible addresses namely the problems and
> >>>   opportunities for Internetworking with Independent Network Address
> >>>   Spaces (IINAS).
> >>>
> >>>   To better enable such internetworks, this memo proposes a framework
> >>>   for a Functional Addressing model.  This model also intends to
> >>>   support several other addressing goals including programmability and
> >>>   multiple semantics.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The IETF Secretariat
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> ---
> >> [e-mail]
> >>
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