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Re: [Int-area] Warren Kumari's Yes on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-15: (with COMMENT)

Geoff Huston <gih@apnic.net> Fri, 09 August 2019 18:53 UTC

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From: Geoff Huston <gih@apnic.net>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
CC: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org>, int-area <int-area@ietf.org>, intarea-chairs <intarea-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Warren Kumari's Yes on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-15: (with COMMENT)
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Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2019 18:53:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Int-area] Warren Kumari's Yes on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-15: (with COMMENT)
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> On 9 Aug 2019, at 10:27 am, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Tom,
> 
>> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:47 AM, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> As the document highlights the problems of fragmentation are caused by
>> nonconformant middlebox implementations. There is nothing inherently
>> wrong with the fragmentation and end hosts don't a problem with it.
>> IMO, this is just one example of (some) middleboxes arbitrarily
>> breaking end to end protocols. I am hopeful that document will also
>> trigger work to start fixing fix broken middlebox implementations.
>> 
> 
> I certainly hope so.  It’s certainly a big problem for the IETF if any new protocol is constrained by the worst middle box implementation.


The picture gained from broad scale measurements points to a current 
reality that removes the conditionality from your observation Bob. 
If the application has to work robustly in today’s network then you 
need to design defensively and not push into areas where actual network 
behaviours deviate from some ideal. I can be as sentimental as anyone 
and decry where we have got to as being far from where we had wanted to 
be, but I’m also sufficiently pessimistic to believe that there is 
insufficient collective impetus to reverse this situation. 

ymmv.

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