Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Tue, 03 September 2019 19:45 UTC

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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
CC: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, "Joel Halpern" <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org>, "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" <intarea-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)
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Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 19:45:36 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)
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Bob,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 9:10 AM
> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>om>; Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>om>; Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>in>; Joel Halpern
> <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>om>; draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; IESG <iesg@ietf.org>rg>; intarea-
> chairs@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)
> 
> Fred,
> 
> > On Sep 3, 2019, at 7:33 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why was this section taken out:
> >
> >> 1.1.  IP-in-IP Tunnels
> >>
> >>   This document acknowledges that in some cases, packets must be
> >>   fragmented within IP-in-IP tunnels [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels].
> >>   Therefore, this document makes no additional recommendations
> >>   regarding IP-in-IP tunnels.
> 
> This text in the Introduction was removed because, as noted in Warren Kumari
> Comment (2019-08-07 for -15), this didn’t need to be in the introduction, and it didn’t say very much that isn’t described later in the
> document.
> 
> The normative text in Section 5.3. "Packet-in-Packet Encapsulations” is unchanged.  I think Section 5.3 covers the topic.  It includes the
> reference to [I-D.ietf-intarea-tunnels].

While I agree that both passages supply a working vector to 'intarea-tunnels',
the two strike very different tones. The former gives a balanced citation, while
the latter calls it a "corner case" - twice!

Whether we like it or not, fragmentation and encapsulation will continue to
be associated with each other no matter what gets documented here. So,
a respectful handoff to 'intarea-tunnels' would be appreciated.

Fred

> Bob
> 
> 
> >
> > Tunnels always inflate the size of packets to the point that they may exceed
> > the path MTU even if the original packet is no larger than the path MTU. And,
> > for IPv6 the only guarantee is 1280. Therefore, in order to robustly support
> > the minimum IPv6 MTU tunnels MUST employ fragmentation.
> >
> > Please put this section of text back in the document where it belongs.
> >
> > Thanks - Fred
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2019 7:06 AM
> >> To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
> >> Cc: Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>om>; draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; The IESG
> <iesg@ietf.org>rg>;
> >> intarea-chairs@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: (with COMMENT)
> >>
> >> Hi, all,
> >>
> >> So let me see if I understand:
> >>
> >> Alissa issues a comment.
> >>
> >> We discuss this on the list and come to a rare consensus on a way forward.
> >>
> >> The new draft is issued that:
> >>
> >> a) ignores the list consensus
> >> b) removes a paragraph not under the DISCUSS (1.1)
> >> c) now refers to vague “other documents” without citation
> >> d) most importantly:
> >>
> >> 	REMOVES a key recommendation that we MAY use frag where it works
> >>
> >> 	Asserts the false claim that IP fragmentation “will fail” in the Internet,
> >> 	despite citing evidence that the *majority of the time* it does work
> >> 		e.g., for IPv6, sec 3.9
> >>
> >> What happened? Why is a change this substantial not reflecting the *list consensus*?
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >>> On Sep 3, 2019, at 5:59 AM, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
> >>> draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-16: No Objection
> >>>
> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> >>> introductory paragraph, however.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> COMMENT:
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Int-area mailing list
> >>> Int-area@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Int-area mailing list
> >> Int-area@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area