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boundary="_000_BN0P110MB14203F603018C28271EC44A0A32FABN0P110MB1420NAMP_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN0P110MB1420.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d8c58fbe-4ffe-414d-0a5b-08ddd697eb34 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Aug 2025 16:23:33.0757 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bcf48bba-4d6f-4dee-a0d2-7df59cc36629 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1P110MB1552 X-OriginatorOrg: boeing.com X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Message-ID-Hash: XSBY77I25XYTHYWX4NJNCA2W7FOKU3QN X-Message-ID-Hash: XSBY77I25XYTHYWX4NJNCA2W7FOKU3QN X-MailFrom: Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-int-area.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6 Precedence: list Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5BInt-area=5D_Re=3A_WGLC_for_=22IP_Tunnels_in_the_Internet_Archit?= =?utf-8?q?ecture=22_draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels?= List-Id: IETF Internet Area WG Mailing List Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --_000_BN0P110MB14203F603018C28271EC44A0A32FABN0P110MB1420NAMP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, I think it is more than just a corner case since any IPv6 interface= with a configurable MTU could be (mis-)configured to a size as small as 1280. But,= I will let Joe address the larger question. Thank you - Fred From: Ron Bonica Sent: Friday, August 08, 2025 9:10 AM To: Templin (US), Fred L ; Te= mplin (US), Fred L ; Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzunig= a) ; Internet Area Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Architecture" = draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments. Fred, Is the value of this document limited to a discussion of fragmentation in a= corner case where an IPv6 network has links with MTUs between 1280 and 150= 0? If so, the community might be better served by a very short document that a= ddresses that issue head on. Ron Juniper Business Use Only ________________________________ From: Templin (US), Fred L > Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2025 4:15 PM To: Ron Bonica >; Templin (= US), Fred L >; = Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) >; Internet Area > Subject: RE: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Architecture" draft-ietf-= intarea-tunnels [External Email. Be cautious of content] Ron, Section 3.6 of the tunnels draft I think speaks directly to the need f= or fragmentation in a way that should be observed by all tunneling specifications. But to pu= t more words to it (and focusing only on IPv6) the IPv6 minMTU is only 1280 - not 1500. So,= for IPv6-in-IPv6 tunnels when the path MTU is at or near the minimum, fragmentation becomes = essential. This agrees with RFC2473. Many tunneling protocols live by "grace" and assume 1500 everywhere. But, r= obust tunneling protocols need to live by the "law", and the law says 1280. Thank you - Fred From: Ron Bonica > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2025 12:53 PM To: Templin (US), Fred L >; Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzu= niga) >; Internet Area > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Int-area] Re: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Arc= hitecture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments. Inline........ Juniper Business Use Only ________________________________ From: Templin (US), Fred L > Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2025 2:45 PM To: Ron Bonica >; Juan Carl= os Zuniga (juzuniga) >; Inter= net Area > Subject: RE: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Architecture" draft-ietf-= intarea-tunnels [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Ron, It can and should change behaviors regarding the essential nature of fragme= ntation and reassembly for tunnels. [RB] I didn't get that part. Can you explain how? That is a large part of why my drafts always combine encapsulation with fra= gmentation and also why I published "Fragmentation Revisited". I think the = document should remain in IETF channels. Thank you - Fred From: Ron Bonica > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2025 11:31 AM To: Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) >; Internet Area > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Int-area] Re: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Arc= hitecture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments. Folks, This is an excellent overview of tunnel technology. However, I wonder if th= e publication of this draft will change anyone's behavior. If not, I wonder= if the IETF stream is the right place for this document. Maybe the indepen= dent stream is more appropriate? Maybe the Internet Protocol Journal or a b= log? Maybe even a chapter in a textbook? = Ron Juniper Business Use Only ________________________________ From: Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) > Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2025 1:41 AM To: Internet Area > Subject: [Int-area] WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Architecture" draf= t-ietf-intarea-tunnels [External Email. Be cautious of content] Dear IntArea WG, The authors of Draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intar= ea-tunnels-15 ar= e requesting a WGLC. The latest draft was presented at IETF 123 and we hear= d some comments from the floor. Hence, we are starting now a 2-week WG Last Call. We would like to receive = at least 5 substantial reviews to move forward. Please express your support/comments by replying to this email. To compensa= te for the summer break, the call will end on Friday the 22nd of August (Ao= E). Thanks, Juan-Carlos & Wassim (IntArea WG chairs) --_000_BN0P110MB14203F603018C28271EC44A0A32FABN0P110MB1420NAMP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ron, I think it = is more than just a corner case since any IPv6 interface with a<= /span>

configurable MTU co= uld be (mis-)configured to a size as small as 1280. But, I

will let Joe addres= s the larger question.

 

Thank you - Fred

 

From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper= .net>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2025 9:10 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=3D40boeing.com@dmarc.iet= f.org>; Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; Juan Car= los Zuniga (juzuniga) <juzuniga@cisco.com>; Internet Area <int-are= a@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Ar= chitecture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

 

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.

 

 

Fred,

&n= bsp;

Is the = value of this document limited to a discussion of fragmentation in a corner= case where an IPv6 network has links with MTUs between 1280 and 1500?=

&n= bsp;

If so, = the community might be better served by a very short document that addresse= s that issue head on.

&n= bsp;

  =                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                     R= on

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

 

Ju= niper Business Use Only

From: Templi= n (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=3D40boeing.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2025 4:15 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@ju= niper.net>; Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuni= ga) <juzuniga@cisco.com>; Internet Area <int-area@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Architecture&= quot; draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Ron, Section 3.6 o= f the tunnels draft I think speaks directly to the need for fragmentation

in a way that shou= ld be observed by all tunneling specifications. But to put more words to

it (and focusing o= nly on IPv6) the IPv6 minMTU is only 1280 – not 1500. So, for IPv6-in= -IPv6

tunnels when the p= ath MTU is at or near the minimum, fragmentation becomes essential.<= o:p>

This agrees with R= FC2473.

 =

Many tunneling pro= tocols live by “grace” and assume 1500 everywhere. But, robust<= /span>

tunneling protocol= s need to live by the “law”, and the law says 1280.=

 =

Thank you - Fred

 =

From: Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.i= etf.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2025 12:53 PM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=3D40boeing.com@dmarc.ietf.org&g= t;; Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) <juzuniga@cisco.com>; Internet Area <int-area@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Int-area] Re: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the = Internet Architecture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

 

EXT email: be mindful of links/attac= hments.

 

 

Inline= ........

 

 

 

Ju= niper Business Use Only

From: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=3D4= 0boeing.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2025 2:45 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rboni= ca@juniper.net>; Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) <juzuniga@cisco.com>; Internet Area <int-area@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet Architec= ture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

 

= [External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Ron,

 

It can and should change behaviors rega= rding the essential nature of fragmentation and reassembly for tunnels.

 =

[RB] I= didn't get that part. Can you explain how?

 =

 =

That is a large pa= rt of why my drafts always combine encapsulation with fragmentation and als= o why I published “Fragmentation Revisited”. I think the docume= nt should remain in IETF channels.

 

Thank you - Fred

 

From: Ron Bonica <rbonica=3D40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org><= br> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2025 11:31 AM
To: Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) <juzuniga=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&g= t;; Internet Area <int-area@ietf.or= g>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Int-area] Re: WGLC for "IP Tunnels in= the Internet Architecture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

 

EXT email: be mindful of links/attachments.

 

 

Folks,

 

This is an excellent overvi= ew of tunnel technology. However, I wonder if the publication of this draft= will change anyone's behavior. If not, I wonder if the IETF stream is the = right place for this document. Maybe the independent stream is more appropriate? Maybe the Internet Protocol Jo= urnal or a blog? Maybe even a chapter in a textbook?

 

       =                     &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                     =       Ron

 

 

 

&= nbsp;

 

Ju= niper Business Use Only

From: Juan Carlos Zuniga (juzuniga) <juzuniga=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.= org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2025 1:41 AM
To: Internet Area <int-area@ietf.org>
Subject: [Int-area] WGLC for "IP Tunnels in the Internet A= rchitecture" draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels

&= nbsp;

[External E= mail. Be cautious of content]

 

Dear IntArea WG,
 
The authors of Draft https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-15 are req=
uesting a WGLC. The latest draft was presented at IETF 123 and we heard some comments =
from the floor.
 
Hence, we are starting now a 2-week WG Last Call. We would=
 like to receive at least 5 substantial reviews to move forward.
 
Please express your support/comments by replying to t=
his email. To compensate for the summer break, the call will end on Friday the 22nd of August (AoE)=
.
 
Thanks,
 
Juan-Carlos & Wassim
(IntArea WG chairs)

 

 

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