Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: IP Fragmentation Considered Fragile

Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> Wed, 25 July 2018 22:44 UTC

Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E51130E02 for <int-area@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:44:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xVk9c47-uVP4 for <int-area@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD67F124C04 for <int-area@ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:44:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108161.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6PMiMYS004020 for <int-area@ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:44:31 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=VmCiu0YEym4Yiya/eQJTJTHhwQ3t/EBtLUGr29XkM+Y=; b=EgyBBfsVJin2HQYpjtCo8sazc8mq5n3swbuR5KXgQ1/8SBW1nfuNi01QQPlhNAigUMIZ L8G66uqPgpsE21fc+2Je1NA2V8GT8AFUtqavmcnLNMFN5Evt0ubf0kkQ/yox8Pcvx3i0 8UsEQkyczluw2xlquS1okGm7p6/g0wHD4V9AZjTZZl3+cLRyCImF2WejkkjqnL/LWBb1 7UhS7fJAVTEJHM0o1KP+Oa8r8JHhm00I65OYLN1b+pb3VN8BD/7cNlxxbn0AbzBw9y8f 1+/lw5qXCZ+VSese/v+BY+YP4AE5Ly+pOcChbgrAiK+rdpgRD+Yp7tsbs+E5aBIzE11/ VQ==
Received: from nam03-co1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam03lp0022.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.181.22]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2kf23jg0gd-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for <int-area@ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:44:30 -0700
Received: from CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) by CO1PR05MB523.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.995.12; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 22:44:28 +0000
Received: from CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7de8:5a5d:b33e:cc4]) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7de8:5a5d:b33e:cc4%13]) with mapi id 15.20.0995.014; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 22:44:28 +0000
From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
To: "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption Call: IP Fragmentation Considered Fragile
Thread-Index: AdQkaQk8+WhUpZzdT0qA5FKo/2OemQ==
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 22:44:28 +0000
Message-ID: <CO1PR05MB443402C625F403B35E1BB25AE540@CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
dlp-product: dlpe-windows
dlp-version: 11.0.400.15
dlp-reaction: no-action
x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.13]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CO1PR05MB523; 6:7TmrvN6s5OE9jOH3wC1ig8pny81e3+TSEQDmmOFubRd1HODgg8QxSBYoUyfWPGqKqrJQ/Lrc/CjMs0yZGXkZoUeq1pj/5U1iBeanc+rZ0zzJMoNJFURA5yzIXi/TP6FF7Ikj/Jsn04NJujTbANsnfckyFZ9hkZ+mVo6dhYvicoxkMSYF2/+m/W4FTxzcSEX7eU3aJ3KDCoHj+0wVq5mZB0I7BGd95TfAALNHqREj4vxYimZECeCK/1jrjgTPdlwxvhKDE0XmXggWPI/e5Pjs6EQx3ErmvOL2SLDjtlGQffAYVOLEDVVbU3Fpu0usTbNywxBBHOnQkHsJ1InwUZhxvuueNNafJbL6i0negCBjw7JjfOa2JLwfjIbMsPd8Yf7/vpef8GUPHoBBgRBvZrD32lV2Aq43jAhbFc6+y5KkL19RhSgMPk2ohDpEnn/+I1jRkxq8xlJJwo9oEdOz6SRrRg==; 5:DIzIviwZYDlvSWvp8DxWxRYdAU7ZETAtwvldCGL0vX08GVYaUA9dMJHXZ3qjJR3g8KBCscZrW4MZWUoRwbBnaUUKirIpcFpc6KH2UgGSFMTOd9T1CPmfLg27vkNZJBJUp+ofZjv3DNxxiEwzb/WzEYS8IeDcm4HFl8X99x6O2sU=; 7:rnTJIK9dTHfkJzWbBV+Ky9nn8I902txP/A9qGMBL8CciIjSafb5CSnqFgz6cCZ4oEEK7f92dXVOuzw36JLbv4GW/9RyUJIglyVZey4MbsOo/Z7P9aqy6CccbGbgJZyEZhPpv4EylmlChnWTjnHkaj4z3BoU2G+YWvR7cDw4SmRqQLbgJ0NhDm47XFD8GAtdIIpXgbtKB9IqB9+BAOJSIRSkrDnC6YEqvT82P0gGv5tWhWTAt0s82Anih45DU6/Rj
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 158587c9-f4e2-4838-9b6a-08d5f2802de9
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989117)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(5600073)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:CO1PR05MB523;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO1PR05MB523:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <CO1PR05MB52312784FD3A1E677D7877BAE540@CO1PR05MB523.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(37575265505322)(278428928389397)(85827821059158)(248295561703944);
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(3231311)(944501410)(52105095)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123560045)(20161123562045)(20161123558120)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564045)(6072148)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:CO1PR05MB523; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CO1PR05MB523;
x-forefront-prvs: 0744CFB5E8
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(366004)(39860400002)(346002)(376002)(396003)(136003)(189003)(199004)(5250100002)(486006)(105586002)(7696005)(2900100001)(256004)(478600001)(33656002)(6246003)(9686003)(476003)(8676002)(55016002)(102836004)(81156014)(5640700003)(66066001)(25786009)(316002)(6506007)(6116002)(81166006)(53936002)(3846002)(99286004)(26005)(6916009)(86362001)(8936002)(2906002)(97736004)(5660300001)(186003)(6436002)(2351001)(74316002)(68736007)(305945005)(106356001)(7736002)(2501003)(229853002)(14454004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB523; H:CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 5BRzNtdSHCZDd6DYjpHiX4DDQ8MVpmNppNsn4+Eak9CdoeWGi7DRNcSElUqe68qlo8VRipEXhQtQX7zMbm3ehJH4QmUe90ZuZ2RkGVu9+LlW8+zAZU6IOAN/PJyJmGtvMYkOqN5VK++6VghZQs8XniWlBTt7fDjsRBDV/fopznE6xgtuQ7BHoetACTbEc7P0ndS8BV9w+eIF2GDZ2L6iD11ZN3sfLT/dsfQZhVrcZnTztB854t4YxUjlCmeUPZeKojtWJQHporYrXR/hCNnRsbtg0nVZE/im5yBsMvnbYvXqwBBAge1Ikj0BJOHnIwcxN1yai3uC0xfincBKVqn7P2O/XxHmY8hO/t+5cf2vkYQ=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 158587c9-f4e2-4838-9b6a-08d5f2802de9
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Jul 2018 22:44:28.2032 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO1PR05MB523
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-07-25_06:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807250234
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/int-area/nhZFFlE8ggS4Tl2AZAnhVzpV2LI>
Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: IP Fragmentation Considered Fragile
X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List <int-area.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/int-area/>
List-Post: <mailto:int-area@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 22:44:36 -0000

Brian,

I agree that we need more text in this area. Let's chat off-line.

                                    Ron


> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:37:48 +1200
> From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
> To: Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com>om>,
> 	"internet-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>
> Cc: "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" <intarea-chairs@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: IP Fragmentation Considered
> 	Fragile
> Message-ID: <9fe7b797-3442-5a00-6e77-a8c3a1ec4617@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> +1 for adoption.
> 
> However, I am a bit concerned about this key recommendation:
> 
> >    Application developers SHOULD NOT develop applications that rely on
> >    IPv6 fragmentation
> 
> It isn't obvious to me that this is an algorithmic requirement. If the application
> runs over TCP, how does the developer ensure that TCP will use an MSS that
> avoids the need for fragmentation? (The UDP situation is a bit clearer, but
> RFC8085 introduces considerable complexity, unless we accept that the
> Internet MTU for UDP is 576 or 1280.)
> 
> Regards
>    Brian
> 
> 
> 
***********************************