Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01.txt

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Fri, 01 November 2019 16:04 UTC

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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01.txt
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:04:36 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01.txt
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> A different title might be better.

Call it "Report Fragmentation". Have the receiver check the RF bit to see if the sender
wants fragmentation reported. If so, send the report; else, just reassemble as normal.

Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:51 PM
> To: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Cc: int-area@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01.txt
> 
> Ron,
> 
> A few comments on your draft.
> 
> Naming the draft "Lossless Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD)” seems to be very aspirational, and is an oxymoron.  ICMP message can be
> rate limited and dropped in the network.   Hardly “lossless”.  A different title might be better.
> 
> I do like the idea of the destination sending feedback, we have worked on some other drafts with that property.
> 
> The document says:
> 
>    This document describes alternative PMTUD procedures that do no rely
>    on the network's ability to deliver ICMP Destination Unreachable
>    messages to the source node.  In these procedures, the source node
>    produces an initial PMTU estimate.  This initial estimate is equal to
>    the MTU of the first link along the path to the destination node.  It
>    can be greater than the actual PMTU.
> 
> This is not really correct, your are still dependent on the networks ability to deliver ICMP messages to the source node.  Just not ICMP
> Destination Unreachable messages.   A new ICMP message isn’t going to be better, perhaps worse.
> 
> I didn’t understand the purpose of the Code field, that can indicate reassembly error.  What is the purpose of this?   This seems to be
> in conflict with this message that is sent when the destination node successfully reassemblies a set of fragments.  With the code
> indicating reassembly error, it is saying that the fragments were not reassembled.
> 
> It may be folly to try to modify IPv4 implementations at this point.   I have no objections if you wish to try pushing this big rock up hill,
> but I doubt you will be successful.
> 
> I see you have several co-authors from Harvey Mudd College.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> > On Oct 31, 2019, at 12:16 PM, Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Updated draft
> >
> >
> > Juniper Business Use Only
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 3:15 PM
> > To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; Hakan Alpan <halpan@hnc.edu>; Radon Rosborough <rrosborough@hmc.edu>; Bradely
> Newton <bnewton@hmc.edu>; Bradley Newton <bnewton@hmc.edu>; Miles President <mpresident@hmc.edu>; Manoj Nayak
> <manojnayak@juniper.net>
> > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01.txt
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01.txt
> > has been successfully submitted by Ron Bonica and posted to the IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:		draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud
> > Revision:	01
> > Title:		Lossless Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD)
> > Document date:	2019-10-31
> > Group:		Individual Submission
> > Pages:		7
> > URL                     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-intarea-lossless-pmtud-01
> > Abstract:
> >   This document describes alternative IPv4 PMTUD procedures that do not
> >   prevent IP fragmentation and do no rely on the network's ability to
> >   deliver ICMP Destination Unreachable messages to the source node.
> >   This document also defines a new ICMP message.  IPv4 nodes emit this
> >   new message when they reassemble a fragmented packet.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
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