Re: [Int-area] Discussion about Section 6.1 in draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Thu, 05 September 2019 22:30 UTC

Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EB9120119; Thu, 5 Sep 2019 15:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8vOINobvuG2X; Thu, 5 Sep 2019 15:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9965D120025; Thu, 5 Sep 2019 15:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id q19so4449995wmc.3; Thu, 05 Sep 2019 15:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=8qYmz8bgDQK9wM4qyTzYZ62TsayZ4brmAemL9f7eUtw=; b=i3bC0Av158JEeNxhnmQDHxoWtkN47mtXEoNA0xDgw/SLPRFmPnNHF3ML0Edjn8ICxN 6jz1BviwtjNzUN0B8J3F+4VQF64BBAfSmTPvmALz76yDaHkKbSEnC6uXYFLNIkbwApnm dnyF+pZNMRV7G5dRbD54efkLCCQhysv9a23CLIKd+7ldPd8I993mDVX9M2yByQ2LZl1f ogNisCgrLRq6wAb945TjTCOGr5barriJHsLhDLN/6luGlyQSAUFWVnw8GBv9cRQhTVTJ ya3xkd6Q5Muxl81dq+LWEZ14F4CbUr7cKP57JlxIZjkoigqFm0v+R2do4yKK+VckRGqb e+Sw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=8qYmz8bgDQK9wM4qyTzYZ62TsayZ4brmAemL9f7eUtw=; b=Quiq8R9NBONcc9BqK6UAVesvoyezmwA3cYUWwIuWOUeoS10mjWjn6YJcn22y6K51bW Y4tefK4gmN4Sp1XB+6p21Txw+9wWUexfXZ3xe+J5SslHytERwmEr1aVGMRLxXAZ8JI24 DbmQxQkQJLzt6S8PHmKuozBW4ZmVICvw6FqdjQ8DHNJvHIchJ43bFKYhyYBYglaZ75Eq EpPzt0hZOHXXRs4jpBGGR+7XC+QG3SR+aXx5MqqDQ/b686E4tZ8iHtI1n5BKIc70/+6d 8cVs4bn4bezzc21RrO1YnqGIVWTqw9KRsFze3l5rJoJWHDfs1MNGAAgDqPT4ZW1HX3NR Tn4Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWJ2u1XmuAFoIlfDhkK/AgKqU6zno/6+ZIhX2SNh6tkt3bQ66jy j44tte2IbQQeJaS5tUtGrV8=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwiMXyq2SU65nSZd9H7R+0cOsnsI39FVtHCFfHHELuhQx6Oo3jFrH2fr3h10O3jzqPd8eKFAg==
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2302:: with SMTP id j2mr4574375wmj.174.1567722620205; Thu, 05 Sep 2019 15:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:ef0b:8589:2b50:34e1:ce14? ([2601:647:5a00:ef0b:8589:2b50:34e1:ce14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n8sm6074303wma.7.2019.09.05.15.30.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Sep 2019 15:30:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <A21451B6-7CC2-4421-86D8-CACE119A4649@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_13810085-AA1B-41D7-AC90-FD44B2240F7B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2019 15:30:10 -0700
In-Reply-To: <b2514dbe6d69463893077c38bf69d61e@boeing.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Joel Halpern <joel.halpern@ericsson.com>, "draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh@kaloom.com>, "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" <intarea-chairs@ietf.org>
To: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
References: <efabc7c9f72c4cd9a31f56de24669640@boeing.com> <2EB90A57-9BBD-417C-AEDB-AFBFBB906956@gmail.com> <CAHw9_iKozCAC+8TGS0fSxVZ_3pJW7rnhoKy=Y3AxLqWEXvemcA@mail.gmail.com> <4C8FE1C4-0054-4DA1-BC6E-EBBE78695F1B@gmail.com> <b756262692d54930896218abc8316926@boeing.com> <8E1A6788-AE6D-41D5-B124-9653CD0FCE8D@gmail.com> <b2514dbe6d69463893077c38bf69d61e@boeing.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/int-area/u01Dfcgtn8cq7VYLKqiWVUq-pYQ>
Subject: Re: [Int-area] Discussion about Section 6.1 in draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile
X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List <int-area.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/int-area/>
List-Post: <mailto:int-area@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2019 22:30:24 -0000

Fred,

> On Sep 5, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> Your effort is appreciated, but IMHO does not quite go far enough. Here is
>>> a proposed edit:
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>>> 
>>> OLD:
>>>  Protocols and applications that rely on IP
>>>  fragmentation will work less reliably on the Internet unless they
>>>  also include mechanisms to detect that IP fragmentation isn't working
>>>  reliably.
>>> 
>>> NEW:
>>>  Protocols and applications that rely on IP
>>>  fragmentation will work less reliably on the Internet unless they
>>>  also include mechanisms to detect that IP fragmentation isn't working
>>>  reliably, or encapsulate their fragments in protocol headers that can
>>>  traverse fragment-dropping middleboxes.
>> 
>> I am not sure we want or should add specific mechanisms here.  Encapsulation is one approach, but there are others.
> 
> s/encapsulate/disguise

That’s still the same issue.   I also agree with Joel’s comment.

Bob