Re: [Internetgovtech] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci

Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com> Fri, 26 April 2019 02:42 UTC

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From: Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 09:42:40 +0700
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>, "internetgovtech@iab.org" <internetgovtech@iab.org>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, "nethistory@ietf.org" <nethistory@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] The Internet, Architecture, Governance, Technical Work and Net History: A Speci
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Dear John C.K, John L. and All,

A starting point, or starting points, is/are supposeddly high-valued
question as it is about the term "introductory" I said earlier. Thus ones
may come to one or more things--here we may say about the Internet
architecture and governance--with their owns. Among others it is about
"where should we start as we men live in the world with its spatio-temporal
dimensions...?"

While the analytical reading might have lacks in terms of designs and
implementations as I said above was about the "introductory reading" I
proposed. Yet, we also --with the help of such an introductory reading I
proposed-- understand that "internet architecture" is about designs and
implementations.

What are about my designs and implementations for an introductory reading
on the Internet architecture and governance...? Those people gathers around
one or more things may rise concepts, discourses, and histories...

Thank you John C. K for your suggestion on the references though I wander
whether it wil be easy to find the inline ones...


Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Kamis, 25 April 2019, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>; menulis:

> Guntur,
>
> I may be just dense about what you are trying to say, but I'm
> not feeling much greater understanding after reading the note
> quoted below than I was before it.  Are you trying to inform us
> about something you think we have missed?  Perhaps trying to
> start a discussion on a variation of the older topic?  If either
> of those, could be you be more specific?   Or, if you are
> interested in different perspectives than the ones you are
> getting from the IAB and IETF materials you have cited (which I
> think your first paragraph below implies), see inline below.
> However note that the references listed are my personal
> preferences today, with some of them chosen to show some of the
> range of opinions and perspectives that exist and that have
> already been discussed and written about.  Not only would others
> have different lists and different perspectives, but I might
> have different opinions on a different day.
>
> --On Thursday, April 25, 2019 17:23 +0700 Guntur Wiseno Putra
> <gsenopu@gmail.com>; wrote:
>
> > Dear All John, Hesham and All,
> >
> >
> > What are after such an "introductory" reading --such a grand
> > image, such a grand map...? -on the Internet architecture and
> > governance...? as we are trying to learn of those aspects by
> > such reading with the help of a set of knowledges on concept,
> > discourse and history...?
>
> For a recent view of the evolution of the technical architecture
> of the network (with some excursions toward policy
> implications), have a look at David D. Clark, _Designing an
> Internet_, MIT Press 2018, ISBN-13: 978-0262038607.
>
> There is also a view that you are unlikely to find in IETF
> architectural materials.  From that perspective, with the advent
> and very widespread use of the web, the Internet and its
> protocol architecture are rapidly becoming nothing more (or
> less) than a collection of supporting functions for the web,
> with some historical applications that are gradually becoming
> irrelevant.   I think an early W3C document, found at
> https://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-webarch-20030326/ , is a good
> starting point for understanding key elements of that view (even
> though it does not espouse it).
>
>
> On the so-called governance side, a good starting point for a
> contemporary overview is the Internet Governance Forum and the
> various proceedings and associated regional and intersessional
> activities you can find from their home page
> (https://www.intgovforum.org/multilingual/).  There have also
> been a number of summer regional training seminars on the same
> general themes.
>
> A somewhat different perspective, focused differently, can be
> found in Jonathan Zittrain's _The Future of the Internet--And
> How to Stop It_, Yale University Press, 2008, ISBN-13:
> 978-0300124873.
>
> There is also a view that much of what has been discussed under
> the "Internet governance" rubric misses key issues (or, perhaps,
> is even irrelevant) because much of that work assumes that the
> Internet is so new and different that history  and prior policy
> context does not count.  Of course, if one goes too far in the
> other direction (or _an_ other direction), one gets to the the
> theory that all that is needed for the Internet is to
> extrapolate traditional telecommunications (mostly telephone)
> regulatory frameworks forward a bit and we know that approach
> does not work, both for technological reasons and because it has
> been tried a few times.
>
> A different approach that I find very helpful is to ask, not
> "Internet governance" questions but questions about what one
> gets when one starts from traditional, well-established,
> international relations models and and examines how Internet
> (and related) technologies change things.  The best discussion
> of that approach I've run across is Nazli Choucri's
> _Cyberpolitics in International Relations_, MIT Press, 2012.   A
> brand-new and different view, by the same authors, appears in
> Choucri and Clark, _International Relations in the Cyber Age:
> The Co-Evolution Dilemma_, MIT Press, 2019.
>
> > Histories, historical stories, attempted above teach us:
> > people struggled by technology. At least we have an
> > "enthusiasm" for what will come up tomorrow, especially about
> > our humanity and society regarding with possibilities of the
> > Internet as a kind of communication platform --especially on
> > aspects of it: architecture and governance...
>
> > But, there are perhaps lacks with these analytical readings
> > --those design and implementation-- being attempted... Here
> > thus experts may come with their suggestions...
>
> Well, maybe this is all new and experts haven't been heard from
> yet, but I'd urge you to consider, for example, Ithiel de Sola
> Pool's two late works from the standpoint of the evolution of
> communications policy: _Technologies of Freedom_ (1983) and the
> posthumous _Technologies without Boundaries_ (1990), both
> Belnap/Harvard University Press.
>
> Does that help fill in some of the blanks for you or have I
> missed your point entirely?
>
> best,
>    john
>
>
>