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boundary="_000_BN9PR11MB5371F8E54379B89190627550B8002BN9PR11MB5371namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN9PR11MB5371.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 19617847-103f-4bd5-09d1-08dc57ddf6f9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Apr 2024 15:10:02.2127 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: xOs6GudbBj3frs0cIDjIEMndthI/bN09PqQplibCyssq8St0sWkk8pGG+4QTG5ND6m6l4A5lquVs/O5OtPuvow== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR11MB8445 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 72.163.7.165, rcdn-opgw-4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: WG LC: IPFIX documents X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:10:12 -0000 --_000_BN9PR11MB5371F8E54379B89190627550B8002BN9PR11MB5371namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Thomas and authors/contributors. We will move this forward to t= he IESG. Joe From: OPSAWG on behalf of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.co= m Date: Saturday, April 6, 2024 at 03:29 To: jclarke=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org , mohamed.boucadair@orange.com , paitken@= ciena.com , opsawg@ietf.org Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX d= ocuments Dear Joe and Med, I updated both shepherd writeup's accordingly and adjusted to: that consens= us for introducing a new data type unsigned256 has been achieved. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-tcpo-v6eh/shepherd= writeup/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-tsvwg-udp-ipfix/shepherd= writeup/ I confirm that there is no more blocking points for moving forward to IESG. Best wishes Thomas From: OPSAWG On Behalf Of Joe Clarke (jclarke) Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 5:41 PM To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Aitken, Paul ; opsawg@= ietf.org Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX d= ocuments Be aware: This is an external email. As a co-chair, I=92m willing to call consensus on this as there hasn=92t be= en any other replies on this thread after Med asserted the reasoning for st= icking with unsigned256. I would ask Thomas as shepherd to note this in the write-up, and we can pro= ceed to IESG as I believe all other comments from reviews have now been add= ressed. Joe From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 11:04 To: Aitken, Paul >, Joe Clarke = (jclarke) >, opsawg@ietf.org > Cc: ipfix@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX documents Hi all, As indicated in IETF#119, we suggest to tag this issue as closed and procee= d with the publication of the current versions of the various I-Ds. Cheers, Med De : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET Envoy=E9 : vendredi 23 f=E9vrier 2024 15:55 =C0 : 'Aitken, Paul' >; 'Joe Cl= arke (jclarke)' >; 'opsawg@ietf.org' > Cc : 'ipfix@ietf.org' > Objet : RE: Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX documents Hi Paul, Unless I=92m mistaken, I didn=92t see any follow-up to this issue. May I consider this point as closed? Thanks. Cheers, Med De : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET Envoy=E9 : mardi 23 janvier 2024 14:23 =C0 : 'Aitken, Paul' >; Aitken,= Paul >; Joe Clarke (jclarke) >; opsawg@ietf.org Cc : tcpm@ietf.org; tsvwg@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org; ipfix@ietf.org Objet : Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX documents Hi Paul, > It is consistent but wrong, as the numeric value of these fields is meani= ngless. Bitfields with flags semantics don't have a meaningful "unsigned" v= alue. You raised this comment for both TCP/UDP specs. As I mentioned in the previous message, all existing IEs of type flags are = using an unsigned type. Also, please note that rfc7012#section-3.2.5 says t= he followings: "flags" is an integral value that represents a set of bit fields. Logical operations are appropriate on such values, but other mathematical operations are not. Flags MUST always be of an unsigned data type. And rfc7012#section-3: Abstract data types unsigned8, unsigned16, unsigned32, unsigned64, signed8, signed16, signed32, and signed64 are integral data types. As described in Section 3.2, their data type semantics can be further ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ specified, for example, by 'totalCounter', 'deltaCounter', 'identifier', or 'flags'. ^^^^^^^^^^ I quite don=92t understand why we need to define Bitfields rather than leve= raging on the approach followed so far in IPFIX. Cheers, Med De : Aitken, Paul > Envoy=E9 : lundi 22 janvier 2024 11:49 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET >; Aitken, Paul >; Joe Clarke (jclarke) >; opsawg@ietf.org Cc : tcpm@ietf.org; tsvwg@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org; ipfix@ietf.org Objet : Re: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX documents Med, The IE specified in Section 4.1 uses the new abstract data type defined in [I-D.ietf-opsawg-ipfix-tcpo-v6eh]. The unsigned256 type? It makes more sense to introduce a bitfield type. [Med] I think the use of unsigned256 is consistent with the current use in = IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) Entities (iana.org) [iana.org] (where unsigned8, unsigned16, unsigned32, and unsigned= 64 are used for IEs having data semantic of flags. It is consistent but wrong, as the numeric value of these fields is meaning= less. Bitfields with flags semantics don't have a meaningful "unsigned" val= ue. ___________________________________________________________________________= _________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BN9PR11MB5371F8E54379B89190627550B8002BN9PR11MB5371namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you, Thomas and authors/contributors.  We will move this fo= rward to the IESG.

 

Joe

 

From: OPSAWG <opsawg-bounces@ietf.org>= on behalf of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Date: Saturday, April 6, 2024 at 03:29
To: jclarke=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org <jclarke=3D40cisco.com@d= marc.ietf.org>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orang= e.com>, paitken@ciena.com <paitken@ciena.com>, opsawg@ietf.org <= ;opsawg@ietf.org>
Cc: ipfix@ietf.org <ipfix@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: = IPFIX documents

Dear = Joe and Med,

 = ;

I updated both shepherd writeup's accord=
ingly and adjusted to: that consensus for introducing a new data type unsig=
ned256 has been achieved.

 =
;


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-ipfix-tc=
po-v6eh/shepherdwriteup/<=
/p>

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-opsawg-tsvwg-ud=
p-ipfix/shepherdwriteup/<=
/p>

 =
;


I con=
firm that there is no more blocking points for moving forward to IESG.


 =
;


Best =
wishes


Thoma=
s


 






From: OPSAWG <o=
psawg-bounces@ietf.org>
On Behalf Of Joe Clarke (jclarke)

Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 5:41 PM

To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Aitken, Paul <paitken@ciena.com=
>; opsawg@ietf.org

Cc: ipfix@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: =
IPFIX documents






 












Be aware: This is an external email.










 




As a co-chair, I=92m willing to call consen=
sus on this as there hasn=92t been any other replies on this thread after M=
ed asserted the reasoning for sticking with unsigned256.


 


I would ask Thomas as shepherd to note this=
 in the write-up, and we can proceed to IESG as I believe all other comment=
s from reviews have now been addressed.


 


Joe<=
/span>


 









From:
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>

Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 11:04

To: Aitken, Paul <paitken@ci=
ena.com>, Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com>,
opsawg@ietf.org <opsawg@ietf.org>

Cc: ipfix@ietf.org <ipfix@ietf.org>

Subject: RE: Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX doc=
uments






Hi all,



 =



As indicated in IETF#119, we suggest to tag thi=
s issue as closed and proceed with the publication of the current versions =
of the various I-Ds.


 


Cheers,<=
/span>


Med


 








De&=
nbsp;: BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET


Envoy=E9 : vendredi 23 f=E9vrier 2024 15:55

=C0 : 'Aitken, Paul' <p=
aitken@ciena.com>; 'Joe Clarke (jclarke)' <jclarke=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&=
gt;; 'opsawg@ietf.org' <opsawg@ietf.o=
rg>

Cc : 'ipfix@ietf.org' <ipf=
ix@ietf.org>

Objet : RE: Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX=
 documents






 =



Hi Paul,



 =



Unless I=92m mistaken, I didn=92t see any follo=
w-up to this issue.



 


May I consider this point as closed? Thanks.


 


Cheers,<=
/span>


Med


 








De&=
nbsp;: BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET


Envoy=E9 : mardi 23 janvier 2024 14:23

=C0 : 'Aitken, Paul' <p=
aitken@ciena.com>; Aitken, Paul <paitken=3D40ciena.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Joe C=
larke (jclarke) <jclarke=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
opsawg@ietf.org

Cc : tcpm@ietf.org; 
tsvwg@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org; 
ipfix@ietf.org

Objet : Bitfields vs. Unsigned RE: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX doc=
uments






 =



Hi Paul,



 =



> It is consistent but wrong, as the numeric=
 value of these fields is meaningless. Bitfields with flags semantics don't=
 have a meaningful "unsigned" value.<=
o:p>


 


You raised this comment for both TCP/UDP specs.=



 


As I mentioned in the previous message, all exi=
sting IEs of type flags are using an unsigned type. Also, please note that =
rfc7012#section-3.2.5 says the followings:=



 


   "flags" is an integral v=
alue that represents a set of bit fields.<=
/o:p>


   Logical operations are appropriate=
 on such values, but other

   mathematical operations are not.&n=
bsp; Flags MUST always be of an unsigned


   data type.


 


And rfc7012#section-3:


 


   Abstract data types unsigned8, uns=
igned16, unsigned32, unsigned64,


   signed8, signed16, signed32, and s=
igned64 are integral data types.


   As described in Section 3.2, their=
 data type semantics can be further<=
/span>


        =
;            &n=
bsp;           ^^^^^^^^^^=
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


   specified, for example, by 'totalC=
ounter', 'deltaCounter',


   'identifier', or 'flags'.


        =
;         ^^^^^^^^^^


 


I quite don=92t understand why we need to defin=
e Bitfields rather than leveraging on the approach followed so far in IPFIX=
.



 


Cheers,<=
/span>


Med


 








De&=
nbsp;: Aitken, Paul <paitken@ciena.com>


Envoy=E9 : lundi 22 janvier 2024 11:49

=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; Aitken, Paul &=
lt;paitken=3D40cien=
a.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
opsawg@ietf.org

Cc : tcpm@ietf.org; 
tsvwg@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org; 
ipfix@ietf.org

Objet : Re: Re: [IPFIX] WG LC: IPFIX documents






 =




Med,









   The IE specified in Section 4.1 uses the new=
 abstract data type

   defined in [I-D.ietf-opsawg-ipfix-tcpo-v6eh].



The unsigned256 type? It makes more sense to =
introduce a bitfield type.



[Med] I think the=
 use of unsigned256 is consistent with the current use in
<=
span lang=3D"EN-US">IP Flow Information
 Export (IPFIX) Entities (iana.org) [iana.org] (where uns=
igned8, unsigned16, unsigned32, and unsigned64 are used for IEs having data=
 semantic of flags.










It is consistent but wrong, as the numeric value of these fields is meaning=
less. Bitfields with flags semantics don't have a meaningful "unsigned=
" value.










________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_________


Ce message et ses pieces=
 jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees =
et ne doivent donc


pas etre diffuses, explo=
ites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, =
veuillez le signaler


a l'expediteur et le det=
ruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant suscep=
tibles d'alteration,


Orange decline toute res=
ponsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<=
span lang=3D"DE-CH">


 


This message and its att=
achments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be pro=
tected by law;


they should not be distr=
ibuted, used or copied without authorisation.


If you have received thi=
s email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its =
attachments.


As emails may be altered=
, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or fal=
sified.


Thank you.
--_000_BN9PR11MB5371F8E54379B89190627550B8002BN9PR11MB5371namp_--