Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information
Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com> Tue, 30 October 2012 12:21 UTC
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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:21:33 +0000
From: Paul Aitken <paitken@cisco.com>
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To: Gerhard Muenz <muenz@net.in.tum.de>
References: <OF96D061AA.F7F6CDD4-ONCA257AA0.00772818-4A257AA0.0078DF60@au1.ibm.com> <D50FAC55-C109-4A96-A471-538F27F9C2D9@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <OF30095AE1.689CF5C8-ONCA257AA1.001FB2C7-4A257AA1.00211D2B@au1.ibm.com> <5087B96B.7020500@cisco.com> <OFE375B6D9.49AD261E-ONCA257AA1.00703303-4A257AA1.00708F09@au1.ibm.com> <508850F7.2080801@net.in.tum.de> <50885B49.6050603@cisco.com> <DE1ABD89-26A9-485E-893A-3160C6F671A6@cisco.com> <5088666F.1090106@cisco.com> <OF4B5A9A3A.F88C734E-ONCA257AA2.0005120F-4A257AA2.0005F365@au1.ibm.com> <50898454.2000706@net.in.tum.de> <508AB8FB.3060807@plixer.com> <508AE290.3020902@cisco.com> <5b06f4caa55ce88df0f606fb59e19785@net.in.tum.de>
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Cc: John Court <johnwcrt@au1.ibm.com>, ipfix@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information
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Gerhard, I agree with your definitions. Thanks for clarifying. So what's the next step? * Update the IANA definitions? * Add clarifications to the WG documents? Do we need a short presentation at the upcoming WG meeting? P. On 30/10/12 11:51, Gerhard Muenz wrote: > Paul, > > On 26.10.2012 20:20, Paul Aitken wrote: >> Andrew, Gerhard, >> >>>> My understanding is that both, deltaCounts and totalCounts contain >>>> the number of packets or octets observed in the indicated time >>>> interval. So, for identical flowStart* and flowEnd* timestamps, the >>>> values are the same. >>> This is my understanding as well. >> >> There has to be a difference between delta and total counts, else we >> wouldn't have both of them! >> >> Suppose we have a permanent cache, so the cache entries never expire. >> >> For a new flow starting at t0 with a first export at t1, the >> timestamps, delta, and total counts are the same. >> >> However with the second export at t2, the total and delta counts are >> different although their timestamps match (they'll both say, "t0 to >> t2"). > > No, this would contradict the new definition of flowStart* we are just > discussing. > If delta counts are exported for the interval (t1,t2), then flowStart* > is t1. > If delta counts are exported for the interval (t0,t2), then flowStart* > is t0. > If total counts are exported, flowStart is always t0. > These statements hold regardless of which type of cache is used by the > Metering Process. In general, the information model does not care > about how the cache is implemented. The exported information just must > follow the IE definition. > >> >> With the traditional (non-permanent) cache, the entry would probably >> have been removed at t1 and re-created on a subsequent packet, so at >> t2 the delta and total counts would both be equal. However it'd be >> incorrect to report the total count, because that's defined as the >> total number of packets or bytes ..."since the Metering Process >> (re-)initialization for this Observation Point". > > You must not export total counters in this case because you reset > counters before re-initialization of the Metering Process. > > Thanks, > Gerhard > >> >> >>>> However, the description of totalCounts says that you report the >>>> number of packets or octets observed for this Flow since >>>> re-initialization. So, you must never reset the counter for this >>>> Flow, even after observing a FIN or RST. >>>> If you reset flow counters, or if you remove Flows from your Cache, >>>> you cannot use totalCounts any more unless you re-initialize the >>>> Metering Process (e.g. after flushing the entire permanent Cache). >>> >>> I can try some tests later, but from what I have seen (and been >>> told) many totals being exported are in fact just a delta sent once >>> at the end of the flow. If a later flow had the same IPs, protocol, >>> and ports as an earlier flow I'm pretty sure a new start time will >>> be sent rather than the the first time that flow was seen since >>> reinitializing the metering process. >> >> So the MP uses a traditional (non-permanent) cache. In RFC 6728 >> terms, a TimeoutCache or NaturalCache rather than a PermanentCache. >> >> >>> Or to put it an other way I think deltas are being sent, but called >>> totals by the implementation because it seemed like the right thing >>> to do for a value being sent once at the end of the flow. >> >> The collector could be aggregating deltas to keep running totals. >> >> >>> I suspect that totals reporting on the export process (eg >>> exportedOctetTotalCount, exportedMessageTotalCount) are, however, >>> reported with a start time that is only reset on reinitialization. >> >> Definitely, because these are defined as "The total number of X that >> the Exporting Process has sent since the Exporting Process >> (re-)initialization ...". >> >> P.
- [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Johnson
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Feren
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Johnson
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Tarun Saxena (tasaxena)
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Feren
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Gerhard Muenz
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Johnson
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Gerhard Muenz
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Feren
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Johnson
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Andrew Feren
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] [QUAR] Re: Export of long lived flow … Andrew Feren
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Gerhard Muenz
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Paul Aitken
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Gerhard Muenz
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information John Court
- [IPFIX] Fw: Export of long lived flow information John Court
- Re: [IPFIX] Export of long lived flow information Brian Trammell