Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion Signaling (CSIG)
Nandita Dukkipati <nanditad@google.com> Sat, 10 February 2024 06:53 UTC
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From: Nandita Dukkipati <nanditad@google.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2024 22:53:17 -0800
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To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>
Cc: Abhiram Ravi <abhiramr=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>, tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>, ccwg@ietf.org, iccrg@irtf.org, Naoshad Mehta <naoshad@google.com>, Jai Kumar <jai.kumar@broadcom.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion Signaling (CSIG)
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Hi Tom, We updated the draft, correcting some nit errata, and to not let the draft expire. It's not discussed in any other mailing lists. Nandita On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 3:53 PM Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I noticed there is now an -01 version of the draft posted on Feb. 2. > Is this draft being discussed on some other list? > > Thanks, > Tom > > On Sat, Sep 9, 2023 at 9:09 AM Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, thanks for draft! > > > > The first thing that stands out to me is the carrier of the new packet > headers. In the forward path it would be in L2 and in reflection it would > be L4. As the draft describes, this would entail having to support the > protocol in multiple L2 and multiple L4 protocols-- that's going to be a > pretty big lift! Also, L2 is not really an end-to-end protocol (would > legacy switches in the path also forward the header)l?). > > > > The signaling being described in the draft is network layer information, > and hence IMO should be conveyed in network layer headers. That's is L3 > which conveniently is the average of L2+L4 :-) > > > > IMO, the proper carrier of the signal data is Hop-by-Hop Options. This > is end-to-end and allows modification of data in-flight. The typical > concern with Hop-by-Hop Options is high drop rates on the Internet, however > in this case the protocol is explicitly confined to a limited domain so I > don't see that as a blocking issue for this use case. > > > > The information being carried seems very similar to that of IOAM (IOAM > uses Hop-by-Hop Options and supports reflection). I suppose the differences > are that this protocol is meant to be consumed by the transport Layer and > the data is a condensed summary of path characteristics. IOAM seems pretty > extensible, so maybe it could be adapted to carry the signals of this draft? > > > > A related proposal might be FAST draft-herbert-fast. Where the CSIG is > network to host signaling, FAST is host to network signaling for the > purposes of requesting network services. These might be complementary and > options for both may be in the same packet. FAST also uses reflection, so > we might be able to leverage some common implementation at a destination. > > > > Tom > > > > On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 7:43 PM Abhiram Ravi <abhiramr= > 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> > >> Hi IPPM folks, > >> > >> I am pleased to announce the publication of a new internet draft, > Congestion Signaling (CSIG): > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ravi-ippm-csig/ > >> > >> CSIG is a new end-to-end packet header mechanism for in-band signaling > that is simple, efficient, deployable, and grounded in concrete use cases > of congestion control, traffic management, and network debuggability. We > believe that CSIG is an important new protocol that builds on top of > existing in-band network telemetry protocols. > >> > >> We encourage you to read the CSIG draft and provide your feedback and > comments. We have also cc'd the TSVWG, CCWG, and ICCRG mailing lists, as we > believe that this work may be of interest to their members as well. > >> > >> Thank you for your time and consideration. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> Abhiram Ravi > >> On behalf of the CSIG authors >
- [ippm] New Internet Draft: Congestion Signaling (… Abhiram Ravi
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Huangyihong (Rachel)
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Vidhi Goel
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [CCWG] [iccrg] New Internet Dr… Abhiram Ravi
- Re: [ippm] New Internet Draft: Congestion Signali… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion… Nandita Dukkipati
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Shihang(Vincent)
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Neal Cardwell
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Congestion… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Matt Mathis
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Abhiram Ravi
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [CCWG] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Dr… Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Rodney W. Grimes
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [CCWG] [iccrg] New Internet Dr… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Christian Huitema
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Jai Kumar
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [iccrg] [tsvwg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Tom Herbert
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Ruediger.Geib
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Sebastian Moeller
- Re: [ippm] [CCWG] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Dr… Zaheduzzaman Sarker (Nokia)
- Re: [ippm] [tsvwg] [iccrg] New Internet Draft: Co… Gorry Fairhurst