[ippm] Re: comment on draft-ietf-ippm-hybrid-two-step
Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> Thu, 26 September 2024 18:14 UTC
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 11:14:20 -0700
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To: Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: [ippm] Re: comment on draft-ietf-ippm-hybrid-two-step
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Hi Eduard, thank you for your interest in our work. I hope that you don't mind bringing our discussion to the IPPM WG mailing list. Please find my notes below tagged GIM>>. Regards, Greg On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 1:15 AM Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard= 40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Hi Guru, > > Section 5 (Operationaal Considerations > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-hybrid-two-step-02#name-operationaal-considerations>) > is too general for me. > > IMHO: it would be a problem for HTS to detect follow-up packets on > downstream intermediate nodes. > GIM>> There are several data plane demultiplexing techniques. For example, a well-known destination port number in IPvX. > What you put now is effectively “all transit nodes should become stateful > on the limited number of states”. > > It is not good for routers and especially switches. > GIM>> A follow-up technique is broadly used in many protocols. For example, IEEE Std 1588-2008 and RFC 8169 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8169/>. Furthermore, the RFC 9341 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9341/> "Alternate Marking Method" implicitly creates a state in a transit node that supports that hybrid performance measurement method. Also, IOAM-DEX <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9326/> might be deployed with stateful behavior. > IMHO: you need something like IPv6 HbH attached to follow-up packet to > make HTS friendly for routers and switches. > > It should be a value specified by IANA specifically for HTS, not the > combinations of the particular 5-tuple. > GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. We plan to have separate specifications for data planes to describe the application of HTS, e.g., in IPv6 and MPLS. > > > As I understand you properly, you are in general proposing to convert > routers (and switches?) to “partially stateful devices”, > > because the intermediate node should memorize latency (mostly queuing) for > the last “trigger packet” to record it later into the closest “follow-up > packet” that would follow. > > Stateful devices (IPS, FW, LB) are typically 3x expensive to routers, 5x > to switches. > > “Partially stateful” devices (like you propose) should not be the same > expensive. > > I do not have a clue what be an additional cost if 1% of traffic is > stateful? If 10%? > > Reminder, x% may be from 10^8 flows for 1.6Tbps interface. Hence, asking > 1% flows to memorize may convert to 10^6 table. > > IHMO: cost estimation is important for what you propose. > > It was always dangerous to be even partially stateful. > GIM>> HTS is an optional mechanism. Vendors may choose to implement it, and operators might decide to deploy HTS. > > > Best Regards > > Eduard Vasilenko > > Senior Architect > > Network Algorithm Laboratory > > Tel: +7(985) 910-1105 > > >
- [ippm] Re: comment on draft-ietf-ippm-hybrid-two-… Greg Mirsky
- [ippm] Re: comment on draft-ietf-ippm-hybrid-two-… Vasilenko Eduard