Re: [ippm] Lars Eggert's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-rfc8321bis-02: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

[Giuseppe Fioccola <[e-mail]>]

Hi Lars,
Thank you for your review.
Please see my replies inline tagged as [GF].
Note that I will address your comments in the next revision.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe

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Subject: Lars Eggert's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-rfc8321bis-02: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

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draft-ietf-ippm-rfc8321bis-02: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

# GEN AD review of draft-ietf-ippm-rfc8321bis-02

CC @larseggert

Thanks to Elwyn Davies for the General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) review
(https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/tX3DO8ZB3yeiaKC_xnI1khVAcss).

## Discuss

### Section 3.1, paragraph 5
```
     The rest of the document assumes that the blocks are created
     according to a fixed timer.  The switching after a fixed number of
     packets is an additional possibility but its detailed specification
     is out of scope.
```
This should more strongly say that the use fixed timers are REQUIRED when
implementing the spec. This document should then also be stripped of all text
discussing the "fixed number of packets" approach, to improve clarity. (You
could move it to a non-normative appendix, if there is a desire to keep the text
around.)

[GF]: I will revise that sentence and say that the use of a fixed timer is REQUIRED when implementing the specification.

### Section 3.1, paragraph 16
```
     Two different strategies that can be used when implementing the
     method:
```
If both of these strategies are part of the standard, concrete guidance needs to
be given when to use one or the other. The text below about "a limited number of
traffic flows") is too unspecific.

[GF]: I will highlight that the flow-based strategy is REQUIRED when implementing this specification. I will also revise the text and replace "limited number of traffic flows" with "well defined traffic flows". I could probably delete the part on the link-based strategy.

### Section 3.2, paragraph 1
```
     The same principle used to measure packet loss can be applied also to
     one-way delay measurement.  There are three alternatives, as
     described hereinafter.
```
As above, there is a lot of discussion text around these alternatives, but no
concrete guidance when one SHOULD be used but not the other two. If that
guidance cannot be given, I wonder if we have enough deployment experience to
lift this to the Standards Track.

[GF]: I can surely add more details and guidance in section 7. Regarding the alternatives for delay measurements, there are some considerations to do in order to provide guidelines, such as the number of flags available (If there is only one flag you have no choice) or the kind of information needed (double marking is more robust and allows to get more statistics) or software/hardware limitations (mean delay calculation is resource consuming), and so on

### Section 5, paragraph 1
```
     This document introduces two color-switching methods: one is based on
     a fixed number of packets, and the other is based on a fixed timer.
     But the method based on a fixed timer is preferable because it is
     more deterministic, and it is considered in the document.
```
Section 3.1 says that the fixed-number-based approach is out of scope for this
specification. The text above is inconsistent with that. Again, please remove
the text that talks about the option that is not actually part of the intended
standard (or move it to an appendix.)

[GF]: I will remove the text that talks about the fixed-number-based approach


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


## Comments

### Section 1, paragraph 5
```
     [RFC7276] provides a good overview of existing Operations,
     Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) mechanisms defined in the IETF,
     ITU-T, and IEEE.  In the IETF, a lot of work has been done on fault
     detection and connectivity verification, while little has been thus
     far dedicated to performance monitoring.  The IETF has defined
     standard metrics to measure network performance; however, its methods
     mainly focus on Active measurement techniques.For example, [RFC6374]
     defines mechanisms for measuring packet loss, one-way and two-way
     delay, and delay variation in MPLS networks, but its applicability to
     Passive measurements has some limitations, especially for connection-
     less networks.
```
This statement on the current state of work in the IETF might not age well in an
RFC - maybe remove?

[GF]: Agree. It can be removed.

### Section 1.2, paragraph 0
```
  1.2.  Requirements Language
```
Like draft-ietf-ippm-rfc8889bis, this document is very light on RFC2119
language, which leaves it quite unclear what the actually specified technique is
intended to be. There are a lot of options for various pieces, but not enough
guidance on when an option MUST/SHOULD/MAY be chosen and why.

[GF]: As per RFC8889bis, I will try to fix.

### Section 3.1, paragraph 17
```
     Using a fixed timer for color switching offers better control over
     the method: the (time) length of the blocks can be chosen large
     enough to simplify the collection and the comparison of measures
     taken by different network devices.  It's preferable to read the
     value of the counters not immediately after the color switch: some
     packets could arrive out of order and increment the counter
     associated with the previous block (color), so it is worth waiting
     for some time.  A safe choice is to wait L/2 time units (where L is
     the duration for each block) after the color switch, to read the
     counter of the previous color.  The drawback is that the longer the
     duration of the block, the less frequently the measurement can be
     taken.
```
Example of a paragraph that can be removed or moved, since the "fixed timer"
option isn't being standardized.

[GF]: The fixed-timer approach is in scope

### Section 4.3, paragraph 9
```
     The Alternate-Marking Method described in this document literally
     splits the packets of the measured flow into different measurement
     blocks.  An implementation MAY use a Block Number (BN) for data
     correlation.  The BN MAY be assigned to each measurement block and
     associated with each packet count and timestamp reported to or pulled
     by other nodes or NMSs.
```
Shouldn't the second MAY be a MUST? It MAY be done, and if it's done it MUST be
done in this specific way?

[GF]: Agree. I will replace it.

### Section 5, paragraph 8
```
     It is assumed that all network devices are synchronized to a common
     reference time with an accuracy of +/- A/2.  Thus, the difference
     between the clock values of any two network devices is bounded by A.
```
This should be made an RFC2119 deployment requirement, because if this cannot be
guaranteed, wouldn't the mechanism break down?

[GF]: The condition that MUST be satisfied is d<L/2. I will use the RFC2119 wording

### Section 5, paragraph 17
```
     If the time duration L of each block is not so small, the
     synchronization requirement could be satisfied even with a relatively
     inaccurate synchronization method.  This is true for packet loss and
     two-way delay measurement, but not for one-way delay measurement,
     where clock synchronization must be accurate.  Therefore, a system
     that uses only packet loss and two-way delay measurement may not
     require a very precise synchronization.  This is because the value of
     the clocks of network devices does not affect the computation of the
     two-way delay measurement.
```
This paragraph does not give actionable guidance on what clock sync scheme to
use for a given deployment.

[GF]: These are just generic considerations. I think they can also be omitted.

### Section 6, paragraph 5
```
        Measurement points MAY simply ignore unmarked fragments and count
        marked fragments as full packets.  However, if resources allow,
        measurement points MAY make note of both marked and unmarked
        initial fragments and only increment the corresponding counter if
        (a) other fragments are also marked, or (b) it observes all other
        fragments and they are unmarked.
```
Shouldn't this more strongly RECOMMEND noting marked fragments, and give
resource consumption as a reason to not follow the recommendation?

[GF]: Yes, the first MAY can be replaced with SHOULD.

### Section 7, paragraph 2
```
     Either one or two flag bits might be available for marking in
     different deployments:
```
The combination of SHOULDs and MAYs in the two following paragraphs leaves
things underspecified.

[GF]: I will revise. Regarding the packet loss measurement SHOULD can be replaced with MUST since it is the only option. For delay measurements, I will also replace SHOULD/MAY with MUST for the cases with single option, otherwise I will leave the two possibilities with SHOULD for the primary option and MAY for the secondary option.

### Section 7.1, paragraph 3
```
     For security reasons, the Alternate Marking Method is RECOMMENDED
     only for controlled domains.
```
Shouldn't this be a MUST-level requirement? I thought the security
considerations were only valid inside a limited domain.

[GF]: Agree. It will be replaced with a MUST requirement.

### Inclusive language

Found terminology that should be reviewed for inclusivity; see
https://www.rfc-editor.org/part2/#inclusive_language for background and more
guidance:

 * Term `man`; alternatives might be `individual`, `people`, `person`

[GF]: Ok

## Nits

All comments below are about very minor potential issues that you may choose to
address in some way - or ignore - as you see fit. Some were flagged by
automated tools (via https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool), so there
will likely be some false positives. There is no need to let me know what you
did with these suggestions.

### Boilerplate

Document still refers to the "Simplified BSD License", which was corrected in
the TLP on September 21, 2021. It should instead refer to the "Revised BSD
License".

### Grammar/style

#### Section 3.1, paragraph 1
```
packets is an additional possibility but its detailed specification is out o
                                    ^^^^
```
Use a comma before "but" if it connects two independent clauses (unless they
are closely connected and short).

[GF]: Ok

#### Section 3.1, paragraph 18
```
 where load-balancing is seldom used and static joins are frequently used to
                                    ^^^^
```
Use a comma before "and" if it connects two independent clauses (unless they
are closely connected and short).

[GF]: Ok

#### Section 3.1, paragraph 22
```
rent to intermediate nodes and independent from the path followed by traffic
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
```
The usual collocation for "independent" is "of", not "from". Did you mean
"independent of"?

[GF]: Yes, I will replace it.

#### Section 13.2, paragraph 4
```
ut not detailed. o Explanation of the the intrinsic error in section 3.3.1 on
                                  ^^^^^^^
```
Possible typo: you repeated a word.

[GF]: Ok

## Notes

This review is in the ["IETF Comments" Markdown format][ICMF], You can use the
[`ietf-comments` tool][ICT] to automatically convert this review into
individual GitHub issues. Review generated by the [`ietf-reviewtool`][IRT].

[ICMF]: https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments/blob/main/format.md
[ICT]: https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments
[IRT]: https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool