IETF Logo Mail Archive

[ippm] Re: New Version Notification for draft-whimir-ippm-stamp-cos-ecn-00.txt

Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de Tue, 12 August 2025 11:44 UTC

Return-Path: <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>
X-Original-To: ippm@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ippm@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DFB531C834 for <ippm@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 04:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.796
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ecPe6ezoXKpm for <ippm@mail2.ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 04:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailout11.telekom.de (mailout11.telekom.de [194.25.225.207]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BDEB531C82F for <ippm@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 04:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telekom.de; i=@telekom.de; q=dns/txt; s=dtag1; t=1754999093; x=1786535093; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=B2JWnldzmrJsiRiZpQZZ7IF+ZZuR6RM/ashYLfiVJyI=; b=q4iQ33Z/zG14PN31tcsHr0LTjkBu1ZaUYf7s9wA5Z0c7SykBFauEatnS WRJDCd6eqWvLspA2BOo73inLK0gdbu3Ih9pFG45A2nueGeMHytPswg/Ec S+XNMA+cTeChtmHJoxfdCkkf1TZ6cpDBEFl2Sx5sprBh26nqIfOS3aNDe gm+ZzYiNm9TofrWRQjuZvveiam2CyOJ7uaMHvYP+fEAZxqUMOeLvHKz3M WXXy5DVy5BNpzfVk3EMTqpv02Q93G/ipJ7EiJf1skD5U/F/qi/LTGjMVk PG8fKLzx5dwK6z3jbJv+ijqv+kwDRJN7cy10ssmF390YX93G3A59XrM1N w==;
Received: from qde9xy.de.t-internal.com ([10.171.254.32]) by MAILOUT11.dmznet.de.t-internal.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 12 Aug 2025 13:44:52 +0200
IronPort-SDR: 689b2934_krlSg5HyCxzdAr4Qaj3ql28ApTCoywFOd66CnFShK0tsr6n rAkuYmG8nOuUZeSS9eZUQCB/qVb6ORVEu4f154A==
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.17,284,1747692000"; d="scan'208";a="1074209220"
X-MGA-submission: MDE14+ybaBYKDwdY/mFeBUG3vNyY1vFqIV6cAkr3qANqL/6Sx1odOqKVqDN1MTCzyeNFHOhqhl7JGqE3pl1wkuW4WkYnv3tG9Vu9OnGtuVdSshTjSZeUdLuRDWLFmRJCa98VwWqlC575kDE8SnJiCuTOR0p+UYLjy6WD1wWw5/C3cQ==
Received: from he101421.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.169.118.197]) by QDE9Y1.de.t-internal.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 12 Aug 2025 13:44:52 +0200
Received: from HE101419.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.118.196) by HE101421.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.118.197) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1748.26; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:44:51 +0200
Received: from HE102770.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.171.40.42) by HE101419.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.118.196) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1748.26 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:44:51 +0200
Received: from BEUP281CU002.outbound.protection.outlook.com (40.93.77.5) by O365mail07.telekom.de (172.30.0.239) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1748.26; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 13:44:51 +0200
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=PvsvZCs/HsAB0eDWX9nhEs1F6QqIsHxIu/+S+y3Bi6dxijc5KC2nYNPugChbI3LGrnMSXjeEEgpgjqFtqr+kmA9evGh1KaBCg3q5VFyNtkUmiNqRnXEbqjcdy7vT3DvhuglZj0GriMF8lA0hz9S4a1G/jZTmsHOLUU68PCd57fZ/ZgXM0wy+vEwnLSLbE2nLP6zQE1hBY49qgc74KG8iy17AAx2VynBrGYmVe7ysip4h4FuS3mmXExOHvc5Urbe0s4WLo4lTMdRmQrZNYYmFwGJ27qphjTnB3L2JzE2VTggjVYe7pIHRx9t9eSFrP9bvHCFvUuCxM6ITQqQVALXBjQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=B2JWnldzmrJsiRiZpQZZ7IF+ZZuR6RM/ashYLfiVJyI=; b=Lnzl9UIQI4cTOMzPIMnVweFpZ7ylmCyzM6idFZCgePKY+HZ8E/8wJ2D75kYU0uMjO6E4L/FJs3k1iW3kgYTtyJx5/X08h/Sd4FNZanpPyYhhlv/ugMAuK/yu3DxN5+eKOrLjFFbtPyHMvwJkSGsjDPcwfmoQtRsCgbXFgQ7rDZjc/vVfghHxC19MGTVQ7/07oIEM23SwVPZTDm7DLF40iVNpWQwpXoHO6YkXJlUOtxfpeu/ZG/oLweWyAW0HhOSwrIMdrOqrxAcFcwf5psaiE7zFFlqyG+KyjNoSQPgou3vZ44xf1hq8/OniozOM0rW57x5mN4//rsPahEGtMy4RPg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=telekom.de; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=telekom.de; dkim=pass header.d=telekom.de; arc=none
Received: from BEZP281MB2007.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:b10:57::6) by FR5P281MB4211.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:117::9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.9009.22; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 11:44:51 +0000
Received: from BEZP281MB2007.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::e80d:7e7e:b006:ea8a]) by BEZP281MB2007.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::e80d:7e7e:b006:ea8a%7]) with mapi id 15.20.9009.021; Tue, 12 Aug 2025 11:44:50 +0000
From: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de
To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Re: New Version Notification for draft-whimir-ippm-stamp-cos-ecn-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHcC3eZVnLx6+4wiEamqofiPEohSrRe47gw
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 11:44:50 +0000
Message-ID: <BEZP281MB200700DB2A3273AE6AC28F929C2BA@BEZP281MB2007.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <4b847838-a3a9-4ac3-b2e5-890c3a6e6af4@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
In-Reply-To: <4b847838-a3a9-4ac3-b2e5-890c3a6e6af4@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=telekom.de;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BEZP281MB2007:EE_|FR5P281MB4211:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c8e6cab8-d69b-4e10-0226-08ddd995a5ae
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|4022899009|1800799024|376014|366016|38070700018|1580799027;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:BEZP281MB2007.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(4022899009)(1800799024)(376014)(366016)(38070700018)(1580799027);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: lkfVu4U0kQyc9H/OSBUzOe5TOW443stQaGaYrP2IKiJixKl23SexdX9oyccqctfoqxV0pPVp+6RbVvHZTck5MO+WPYNBssyp69DxgOam6mJ2yaWUScM6H/prhXnKJioMrH3a/xtlQ4lUZyzVtq2QmmGD/Cd2Vya9uxoWkgaQciXVJtVJ5CskRLlt89N7krJnrj07Y+NxgDHVsDYsoXZOx84vt7TDvlAD/Wer5yeS2uR91eo9E4TLkiRkRvAeCeVZlXN6Nd+f0QJS1EISCHeSlS6tlkStM+SXplT4Nx5t7QiW8KSysbsfLS6jWam0DjjEdDYOb5LrmiaDAnzVHcXwk1hmaGZ7cEjJAV4SW/gre2JIbZoEpyN6b3rkgBmY1m5vmTYARKbNutBK1VZojBwzOY+SgxUNbEBRi0uPVTXQ9IMl+Cco+MBcwn83pRS/wyPRgwq5UPKPPecEHlTNo6L1M53/TYvXaDnY/j8iYU0DlHckSxX3W/8yYZVU6MzjWsJCEOcH9GWnsN6s9gudDcz603aXFiR7gt/oPC0JoeJoOxA/U7FVBtgY+Bfye4mISc5h0QA/gRjlPm2JgQjFGm9DQCZWFbdlMsb7Cnd60zdofIC+Y+fdYvL6wLJerkSY6b+B0Y3OX0OpUAKWqZf/IrP569jinZivu/0J9/T1cm3bDQQTD2atn6UQAiqklBgKdNMDqeLsY/SskuyjL3NdHiW80X7trS6m+wt2zTHcERvQv5rHHlg08mHEw6TJmp/+8q8yFXMeFFXdMZtDb37H9xcT1RNQc1rMuWbELpioh7AhQvPoC5durjeMgugHx/X9pFTg8TMidDGfkNnB2Sn62mXG3lL73TUXQNE8dz3QQN4de06e1nxC6uV95La4q8ZYhY813KavII5s1w3b+47u8614RPyHTrC86Qg5tHhPxFu+LSHxl/8gbh+domdexk+rd0mUPWDynTCHeMkSyimINyWByM5vlrMv2hRoPf4P0gDuFa1JD3k4Sb0y+nj3262MvbOmBAhod+PdMNwMj87w3jKdFPMFVX6ffK/Jnda6UUm9JtAVzslSMbKPzwx3Kce8hUhjuEV0vivNKtH7Yd4/9MYzT1GQFL1vVE73aT2ONYKONVnHsTSx3fEF2UY/KNjWpyAdH6/PROiWwwXRCyXpX0e2EqtyBbzXltfzFjeGiXd5TfUgVifXwoeMrYcg5YHabNRl+yVPmGjhHDNH8a9aKoucu0w8owvUhEuVuoVd2/LUmkKOiZdbuSuZHoVyZ4QF/etVQAh7WgRl3gVBITNGyEwIygyx0Ow7Fu+nuIMCQLzw1MRKO+lUuNcJUiECgmgATjYO/hhYo+agMBMm/mC1EbM5FcoWHxldXSbIYFc0xQGGxSf4ySWyCyL6J9x5TSgImUI5CpEhB4TDpVc6QzkICcZKlZobMNpDXkXyfWdKO6TjvZ5cRzd761VGfQGjsS4dkz2iqLKXlFlzkAp+a5dCz1pd+vbRw0ce3dxqHjVkxRyV3rC9cAK0HiuQaOEQaUZpGAZXBU6p3t/z0azVRQCtxxE7kiZBTKpENIV6h9+hawh0nDDodc8elXM2OA/x9ZRts0AD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BEZP281MB2007.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c8e6cab8-d69b-4e10-0226-08ddd995a5ae
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Aug 2025 11:44:50.8845 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bde4dffc-4b60-4cf6-8b04-a5eeb25f5c4f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WeNvpqofkaZis2auKTPzEBalKVguAduJXXoT1WdbEA43oCxhZFJax/InzDqIkyBqbg+oMqbW9Pq8ve7D6nnn5gDpW9GSqj4TFNDg/+QOYHk=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: FR5P281MB4211
X-OriginatorOrg: telekom.de
Message-ID-Hash: BOWEMHYBK5OKQ7WDP353RZPMXCUJI3VI
X-Message-ID-Hash: BOWEMHYBK5OKQ7WDP353RZPMXCUJI3VI
X-MailFrom: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ippm.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: ippm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [ippm] Re: New Version Notification for draft-whimir-ippm-stamp-cos-ecn-00.txt
List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group <ippm.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/AA2FnZi76SGkaqSEMO6KNq11TiI>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ippm>
List-Help: <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ippm-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ippm-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ippm-leave@ietf.org>

Hi Gorry,

if measurements by creating load or congestion, respectively, are part of the drafts functional design, your comment addresses the reaction on "CE". If a measurement creates congestion, should there be an additional functional specification how to react if there's never a "CE" mark in feedback? You mention some "simplified load control" in the "CE" case. Is there an additional need for a generally working congestion detection and for a simplified load control? If the measurement is designed to induce congestion, to be clear.

Regards,

Ruediger


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. August 2025 12:55
An: ippm@ietf.org
Cc: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Betreff: [ippm] Re: New Version Notification for draft-whimir-ippm-stamp-cos-ecn-00.txt

I think this could be a useful draft, and it is good to see support for measurements on the return path.

One thing that I really think this I-D ought to address is that if the tests generate an appreciable load (which seems likely to be important to measure congestion marking), then the flow that advertises an ECN-Capable Transport, actually needs to follow the rules for flows that are marked in this way.

This means the flow needs to detect and reflect any CE-marking (which I think this spec does).

It also could mean that a tester ought to detect (and ignore) CE marks when ECT is not set; but more importantly when the flow is marked as ECT(?), I think the source now must REACT to reflected CE-marks to reduce the load it generates, this could be a full ECN alagorithm, or perhaps could be a simplified load control which might make the measurement easier to interpret. I'd be interested to understand how this could be realised, and see more.

Gorry



_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list -- ippm@ietf.org
To unsubscribe send an email to ippm-leave@ietf.org

v2.35.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status