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Mon, 22 May 2023 19:25:22 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: "ippm@ietf.org" CC: "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , Alvaro Retana , "draft-song-spring-siam@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Mail regarding draft-song-spring-siam Thread-Index: AQHZjNhMbXLmcg70JkWGoY6etIDFsK9mpzgQ Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 19:25:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY3PR13MB4787:EE_|PH0PR13MB5616:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 78ec46f6-947d-4000-171a-08db5afa49c4 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 7Ui+4pKm43168oZa8TinBd/U4mWFN9IijJ5U2mWxDoYuo+xseAQ552PKMc7gda10oYWQENvy0e/38vuisb3QQ17r2HSjJP7V+XJtGqF1+ffDevLAaZom5fy2qR996hOHQ035hFXo2JUAA8iOhwujvU4gjnbYc5x3LmtBJbUuLWYVL1XTyWQIj/SLv4BKETRMfaZEvSsx08hihvSY8o4QYOqI45YUr6L4HcAD+AO7V0ARJwtKKDEBFXR46vJn+Et6PibZCI3/oEJwBMaYkGqrRbJ5jI2oegdNoBSaMnAMWr0aVKLxiM/adNXnh0vgLLaQzW3JUPK9pNDcQqTUk6okFYMxj1y2WcDvZHB4BWnP+APpepooQ/CJ7lPDgK9g6344lU3xilTfO0PjumeSQOs9HegV65H7hIwBKnXtynhXuBoSKsTkUmF3fdKzTLKhYyC0KHOo/3Ltv9TsxrPMGdnMSitXWlQD4nmd9QslNfZJO5/rze6Y+8iBcWaS6CzmcePE1UECkIbcuQm5WywWlNIAUhp3XgOe9XE1yr4OQNFdnBECow0R/mxPqdJZIgJZu8hW6Vl7KYnjlZnphAnksAk9ziln/47FyatxuCfso7mzj7I= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 78ec46f6-947d-4000-171a-08db5afa49c4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 May 2023 19:25:22.8377 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RHxacPgLOvcn3Zc0o739YxJ2sM2QloFGuhW1RaFhWJx4xRDe4Ayb14UpqVJDkDtfoR4CS25Qn1iDX5LKXRXjPA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR13MB5616 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Mail regarding draft-song-spring-siam X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 19:25:37 -0000 Hi IPPM and SPRING WGs, Per Alvaro's request, I'd like to initiate the further discussions on the p= roposals in this draft, especially seeking feedback from IPPM. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-spring-siam/05/ In particular, we'd like to discuss two questions: 1. new protocol vs reuse existing protocol 2. IPv6 EH vs UDP This draft advocates a general active measurement approach in IPv6 which ta= kes advantage of the source routing feature provided by SRv6. Since SRv6 ca= n pinpoint arbitrary nodes along a planed path, it gives network operators = a simple method to collect data for measurements from designated nodes in t= heir networks. (Path planning algorithms with 100% network coverage have= been published by the coauthor and others, which all rely on source routin= g) This answers the first question. For the second question: why use UDP rathe= r than IPv6 EH. (1) UDP is more extensible. There are already other proposals that use UDP = to support other measurement protocols. This is a good opportunity to unify= the solutions with the same underlying mechanism. (2) There are issues and limitations on IPv6 EH to be resolved, e.g., size,= order, fast path/slow path operation, etc. Using UDP instead of IPv6 EH ca= n avoid such issues and accelerate the adoption and deployment. We believe active measurement utilizing the latest IOAM is very useful in I= Pv6/SRv6 for path probing and traffic engineering. Please provide your thou= ghts on the scheme and suggest how we can progress this work. Thank you ver= y much! Best regards, Haoyu -----Original Message----- From: Alvaro Retana Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 11:07 AM To: draft-song-spring-siam@ietf.org Cc: spring-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Mail regarding draft-song-spring-siam Dear authors: You had sent a message to the WG about the adoption of this document a whil= e back [1] -- the chairs put it in the "adoption queue" [2]. My interpretation of the discussion and the follow-up [3] (cc'ing the ippm = WG) is that there was no agreement on the approach or even that a new/diffe= rent solution is needed. One of the last messages [4] outlined the points = to be considered, but they were not discussed further: 1. new protocol vs reuse existing protocol 2. IPv6 EH vs UDP If you are interested in proceeding, where do we go from here? Part of th= e discussion has been whether an SRv6-specific (vs. IPv6-generic) mechanism= is needed. Please settle this question before asking the spring WG to con= sider the work. I suggest that you discuss it (in light of specific use ca= ses) on the ippm list (cc spring). While the discussion is settled, I will remove the document from the WG's "= adoption queue". Thanks! Alvaro. [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/MoVYcoUw1A9oU56DuVjYIAr6ct= k/ [2] https://wiki.ietf.org/group/spring [3] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/RM6Z3q6kHTRu1V4Zl_dKfUGs-r= A/ [4] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/UufCwJUP0WgiHiYxnG7cp50BOUw/