Re: [ippm] [EXT] RFC 8321 and 8889

Cociglio Mauro <mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it> Sat, 14 August 2021 13:24 UTC

Return-Path: <mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it>
X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA273A1C8C for <ippm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 06:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.089
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telecomitalia.it header.b=RKC7AcMj; dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=telecomitalia.onmicrosoft.com header.b=ol/pHQei
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KcThHzpxKu75 for <ippm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 06:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx02.telecomitalia.it (mx02.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79CC13A18AF for <ippm@ietf.org>; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 06:24:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=telecomitalia.it; s=selector1; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; i=@telecomitalia.it; t=1628947443; x=2492861043; h=MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID:Subject:To; bh=/jgtDcXmrQ8zoEx1L2DNpzJ4/FAjTet0e+uxzCmOYaY=; b=RKC7AcMj4Cb6RFYn3kLnLWegKOdOH8lFBsXqQmNZf/u8uMa7+KZ4AswQG/MdHfbH fhNXccSPPPOyH1NcOlZTv4nbmqbSRafvAwTwDssfPfcRtnRZEf2V7INGZjYbpi6+ Le4MEUsR7ptnB8Evz4efGOr5OZvJ9c8FYc3gvEzYm56AVoktV2LOgkzwDemjbbnV Eo8guv3JgGILMUz6+Vh/jPVQ/jP1w8yyR/DgK/nnclKORq5IdQNmmGXyZk7qY3qV 1oUk9e75ta4dzJXmtUBmGwl3S/qJxKJDSAq40beppLJCB139rEiGvUFpCMQg3Fl8 BlEcjo6u35syfl3U7NlwoA==;
X-AuditID: d9a97916-c4ead700000052e4-89-6117c3f31c13
Received: from TELMBXA12RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.46]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx02.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 1C.B2.21220.3F3C7116; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 15:24:03 +0200 (CEST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=aFwEBBA0b5zrqEkCW1CbBz7UBd56xJPcWQN72BaoV+X51gB5SvGV06nj/pduD8HdXUP5JG5rO0XDkv+8yb34219uYXIBJzgv6vQhHv6nYqaVGS8CoavWtFOV2JNnCgQyLUIvljhoVX5YYazjV7Hf69D1BFVWE3NDHfbrORhuiHCrm4nx/75asVHNIFRnGBGGjQ0vB5N/L7WsjLmoi5kIUATg4A4anvMm8W2Wf1voQpjV3PenCHAxEgOwhID2o/xIZFBrU0qa8+xxOErW9u+Co252G7sZaYIh+O2kVyKpgthab5eLEPKhKxIsCWiYcTWvSDj+CUonIPgyoHVt1f3tHw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=s0Ap14u7892YNsn2UKcbiMddHhLKQD2jCtNQo+V9t7c=; b=DaestNJlqUEVlsNNuKXpiF7sBm+EPJfiW2MDjRFbbupzUhYeB5i0kdpjt2iQQTDYlhtXBfpt6qWfpqz5Sz9D8MfWBZlDGDk2Iqsb+Q7ds2W33g1Oh0JI/+bcviwfdUNKUFYxgAXRQWlGZIdFMRBMvFXSadJ7hVHLADbr8tIBaPgQ2yJt9NOslgbobUsU0h7hRFJzErtkD+aTNc/58o3GsGr6EripczRS5eNHWZYkX9cCkSWYPa4v2lGcE/F85Uo5InIBRB4mCJeScPj7/xXicWaW6FpPrYKRskJSrzslN5NwVFTYbu7GgQ48erWvSV5gT1aEx9fgieUgI5HNAdJ9+g==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=telecomitalia.it; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=telecomitalia.it; dkim=pass header.d=telecomitalia.it; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telecomitalia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-telecomitalia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=s0Ap14u7892YNsn2UKcbiMddHhLKQD2jCtNQo+V9t7c=; b=ol/pHQeiXQn4nDuIza9wh/0COLIbBChtNTyWXKjp6S7KKkEefPicxatbb0uNGUIzy8eO838Tw6499RU6RhXlmF0lC1pFkCWGa3rkQCKbenvqdYipsizqv3aDEMjcQgjYatWr6/gZgj+x/DvzbIyPMsEhmSZjfWlioBvSwLPRKlU=
From: Cociglio Mauro <mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it>
To: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT] [ippm] RFC 8321 and 8889
Thread-Index: AQHXj6erhG+4aJ9dsUq+NSAqg+WBnKty//pQ
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:24:01 +0000
Message-ID: <DBAPR07MB6775931FB842DD0701BD424CE9FB9@DBAPR07MB6775.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAM4esxQHOV2uWJGeqhSyWAbgr36n71S8Ss1bc-1qFiFex9Wu3w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAM4esxQHOV2uWJGeqhSyWAbgr36n71S8Ss1bc-1qFiFex9Wu3w@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US
Content-Language: it-IT
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=telecomitalia.it;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 167d3a33-7d27-4356-8d40-08d95f26c7d5
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR07MB4200:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB6PR07MB42002D5C2AD65BACC596E5AAE9FB9@DB6PR07MB4200.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ti-disclaimer: ADBanner
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DBAPR07MB6775.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(39840400004)(346002)(396003)(136003)(376002)(26005)(478600001)(2906002)(86362001)(5660300002)(966005)(316002)(52536014)(21615005)(33656002)(166002)(91956017)(38070700005)(66556008)(76116006)(66946007)(66446008)(6506007)(9686003)(66476007)(64756008)(122000001)(7696005)(38100700002)(55016002)(186003)(8676002)(71200400001)(8936002)(110136005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?bt4FqglqB3t5XRhk8QxZsy92xcerIXr2cRdsubnNmbmKjVoVyNUoFwu9DpNa?= =?us-ascii?Q?D7TLYNGFCy1hra9Mom9dwFWxyg40doScSIvqbeWBkxs6L4NUpHVNmjQHnBAe?= =?us-ascii?Q?+6voDDVWqktH7HHWKbgPTg3VqpNvu6NV621xne2wNIKoZi32TP9LiiBOP2YL?= =?us-ascii?Q?JFYkWFHZ7nwbxwrJFxrRDUc0vHKGPVP8OpC9V++MiJaRDeDtzhI90Bf04LZ7?= =?us-ascii?Q?sAMhwk/fW8YI5svAG33rSu86TjGpWGw9qePbErJyTGodgGz0TZIpgnYQLHrp?= =?us-ascii?Q?oGN3gSWBlnDKAiYc5WghgM8LQT/sN79HAXkTEsOOkWZmjqFCiAeRBm+XPdrd?= =?us-ascii?Q?ft4/oZYZdyhW8hbL59TZOihwoMRvHgZP/BwTlc9gVEFULhPXyhCUzy4ZkwD2?= =?us-ascii?Q?qN/Ix+j0FxaTtYCicjJ96tJpC0VDFUFkM0HXQXtRqv3QK72bu3gTlb8jSaDW?= =?us-ascii?Q?53niaqHIP6lXmlxzYgnzxUKB2asv1lwsyX1GPZ3AL5XfeDba8XlnZetUOvng?= =?us-ascii?Q?RB5FX0vi98tcfLqy5HRxKtNw+4qC0bvIgjtoFs3ESkkAdfJ8JUCHa4fa5l1t?= =?us-ascii?Q?kX7ATTwoWxZPQuxTIP4wQlvGqrliXWjhdUFzHlNOVhgC72YGP2aJIbG2+aXe?= =?us-ascii?Q?pvuOnmWVrfqWV7JWxFAcgYX3mSqJEVkhCenex5HwPP2mRyoCfaD/7jZgHeSm?= =?us-ascii?Q?PCvOPDOoSNqgk32arjWl9485s/3fiTkP6uy9NkkhAOHQhoKTB/MS7nLh8gBv?= =?us-ascii?Q?L8qfczlXRYnG8hkm6kPU9YKDwIAhMn3+yQKfj8wqEYQd73KF2Z8ys/LEHR/+?= =?us-ascii?Q?HDh0PT53lxHeneZVVM/ZIaBGRYwN1DrhYqSQpFA5OXezVnsTU+CwWbsS749G?= =?us-ascii?Q?AI5+2ifC00x54TUvvkIjb88GLD8Rzzbh5o0BZZjZql0abuPLaWFcXUs614B1?= =?us-ascii?Q?kwACRvVvPGOjSmK0l5mUssbbkSaKnGslKBmzzQaCwNz8huL8PRGHQrvY7Ld3?= =?us-ascii?Q?hLTXd40uY6KGV/tXnQK3BMmHi/zB6ffj2Zw5khcpmGj0I5qE6b41efYueAHt?= =?us-ascii?Q?u4TErAXRKTEH+9jZB0ni51E6booDd3yuu567wleFbEA3TWE3b2XAQSCuROYC?= =?us-ascii?Q?1LD8NgyDD0QzuXw9fegMUzLpNXCNd/ltn1bzRxoJpWn0onFifRThrda6CUpr?= =?us-ascii?Q?0F1R5kgloupYYqJJi+rCVQ5sQ6+fWgEHoupR7MGji0nlNChP65KULZaZe9SM?= =?us-ascii?Q?Lunto3qVY8LUAlqJhpdjj8ZuY8l+AjdAqFE7gxDe2bPdzKect6pXQGV9nTTv?= =?us-ascii?Q?e2geXD1xBxF+qjBW3PQcqlcU?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DBAPR07MB6775931FB842DD0701BD424CE9FB9DBAPR07MB6775eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DBAPR07MB6775.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 167d3a33-7d27-4356-8d40-08d95f26c7d5
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Aug 2021 13:24:01.2751 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 6815f468-021c-48f2-a6b2-d65c8e979dfb
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: mB3JPP27Z3aCNnG/qa8eO20Hh3nce4zj3gQqwDjk7tShXSF8Y/vZl5nNXOoyqoEsou4EgCX1/tz+Tv9cV2xePZSFSKAFc5O8ccZzAKfBg/4=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR07MB4200
X-OriginatorOrg: telecomitalia.it
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrIJsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHT/fzYfFEgwsLjSx6Hrxjtpj++AWb A5PHzll32T2WLPnJFMAU1cBok5iXl1+SWJKqkJJanGyr5JJZnJyTmJmbWqTg6OIElEwtUlLI TLFVMlNSKMhJTE7NTc0rsVVKLChIzUtRsuNSwAA2QGWZeQqpecn5KZl56bZKnsH+uhYWppa6 hkp2gaWpxSX5CrmpxcWJ6emZ+QoJU0Qzbh/fxFRwWK/i4sLJrA2MP9S6GDk5JARMJM5ef8Pa xcjFISQwlUniwt5ZzCAOo8AyZolF1w4yQTinWCQ+zv4NlTnCKLG0+QBYhkVgP7PEz4PTWEGG sQmYSZzZ8oyti5GDQ0TAXeLXMmEQU1hAW+LObgOQChEBHYnlF65DVRhJ7PuSCWKyCKhKfLlW DWLyCsRI/LzjDVIsJBAgsebGZiYQm1MgUGJC/2owm1FAVmLC7kWMIDazgLjEi+kn2CF+EZBY suc8M4QtKvHy8T9WiIMnMkpcfXGLDSIhK3FpfjcjhO0rMeH9PChbS+LvgRZWkBskBLIlmtdL QIQlJQ4f3gTVqi7R8nEeK4QtJ7Gq9yELhC0vMW3Re6gbZCQe3NjOBrJXQmA3m0Tz4o+sEM4E FomXa1dCTTKQmPftCNsERv1ZSJ6AsPMlLky7xAhi8woISpyc+YQFIq4jsWD3JzYIW1ti2cLX zDD2mQOPmZDFFzCyr2IUza0wMNIrSc1JTc7PzSxJzMlM1Mss2cQITLQ3V1aK7WCcveGN3iFG Jg7GQ4wSHMxKIrzFwmKJQrwpiZVVqUX58UWlOanFhxh9gJEzkVlKNDkfmOrzSuINTc1MzY2N zEwNTM0scQgrifOqtgLNEkgHJvjs1NSC1CKYcUwcnFINTIsNg859E19rEMJhoZ3Ef47v4nvV 7ZcqPunPmT+p71MvQ+Y91Q/ZTFrZu6pfX7lwMvaA5qkrt8NlPp5qvdPn391kblLM0271IDTf Yv7vWGGHoOb65bo22yuUkq5mNN10eOhmsCX7nn5444TenWwX/AXr3NaXCk3ZIvh50bxPh7ce eLl5YrMdw1OmUq+qwK02+7sZW/923jHOiLU+ZzaT17Gxqp8tXXfbFefo+OCwMoXa39NDLb5I 1f5p/tn1d5/3hsrgxd0v7uxdo/fISZyhWdx2N0/Eq4TJ+Vukf9W/ePLb9aTAtp9qO259N5rk 6Ghi/nq98OfKWXs6/rv3LGPiN0jy2vZhS+oBjkub921mU2Ipzkg01GIuKk4EAJGgLOpUBAAA
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/f8SsPUnFTsT4Ofm4FH8OUi8zgOc>
Subject: Re: [ippm] [EXT] RFC 8321 and 8889
X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group <ippm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ippm>, <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ippm/>
List-Post: <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm>, <mailto:ippm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 13:24:17 -0000

Hi Martin.
Telecom Italia is using Alternate Marking defined n RFC8321 and RFC8889 to monitor LTE backhauling as also described in
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8782889
So I am in favor to elevate these RFCs to PS.
Thanks.
Mauro




-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Data: 12/08/21 20:27 (GMT+01:00)
A: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Oggetto: [EXT] [ippm] RFC 8321 and 8889

Hello IPPM,

(with AD hat on)

The IESG is currently considering
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark-08
which is the implementation of RFC 8321<https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8321.html> and 8889<https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8889.html> techniques in an IPv6 framework. IIUC, this is very much how things are "supposed to work" -- measurement definitions and methodology are done by IPPM, and the protocol-specific instantiations are in the respective working groups.

However, there are complications in that 8321 and 8889 are Experimental RFCs, and the ipv6-alt-mark draft is a Proposed Standard. This has resulted in text from 8321/8889 going into ipv6-alt-mark so that it can be elevated to PS. I'm told that, if the status quo holds, other drafts will reference ipv6-alt-mark to avoid a downref. This seems suboptimal.

I would prefer that we take one of the two following actions:
1) If the WG has consensus that we are comfortable that there is enough experience with 8321 and/or 8889 to elevate them to PS, I can initiate a document action to change their status.

2) If there is no such consensus, ipv6-alt-mark should be Experimental.

In either case, the draft can probably lose some of the duplicate text.

Logically, there is a third option -- that the bits of the RFCs copied in the draft are mature enough to be a standard, but that the others aren't. Though I'm not an expert, I doubt this is the case. But if people believe it to be true, we'll have to come up with new options.

I would be grateful for the working group's thoughts about these documents and the ideas therein. Is it reasonable for people to read and reflect on this by 26 August (2 weeks from today?)

Thanks,
Martin

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. 

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks. 

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessario.