Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt

In my mind TWAMP, being a layer-3 method, is more commonly used on longer
e-2-e layer3 connections, for example sender from a central core site out
to a reflector on a radio base station. The path between may have several
layer3 hops and many layer-2. If there is LAG somewhere there in the middle
of the path, how will this draft help?

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 12:48 PM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
wrote:

> Hi Henrik,
>
> May I understand what’s the limits?
> The twamp or lag? Or other?
>
> Actually both are supported in existing devices. As far as I know quite normal.
>
> Best,
> Tianran
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Sent from WeLink
> *发件人： *Henrik Nydell<hnydell@accedian.com>
> *收件人： *Tianran Zhou<zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> *抄送： *wangaj3<wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>;IETF IPPM WG<ippm@ietf.org>
> *主题： *Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
> *时间： *2022-01-27 18:15:39
>
> OK, but this requires that the sender runs on the device that performs the
> LAG. This would be quite a serious limitation of the feature I believe
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:48 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Henrik,
>>
>>
>>
>> Both sender and reflector keep the mapping between member link and the
>> micro session. Either by configuration or negotiation or auto-learning.
>>
>> So, in your switch case, if the sender receives the packet from C, not A,
>> the sender know it’s wrong. The test packet should be dropped and not
>> counted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Tianran
>>
>> *From:* Henrik Nydell [mailto:hnydell@accedian.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 27, 2022 5:29 PM
>> *To:* Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
>> *Cc:* wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for
>> draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the clarification, but this "member link validation mechanism"
>> depends fully on configuration between the session sender and the session
>> reflector right? So even if they have agreed that a certain session ID
>> belongs to lag link A, there is no way to be sure that this is the case,
>> the intermediate switches may place these packets randomly over links A-C
>> and the TWAMP/OWAMP sender/reflectors will have no knowledge of this. So I
>> dont know if this addition adds much usefulnes over the already existing
>> capabilities of TWAMP, where you can use the 5-tuple of port-pair, IP-pair
>> and TOS to differentiate session from each other.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 2:37 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Henrik,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks very much for your review.
>>
>> Your perspective is absolutely correct.
>>
>> This draft is not able to “guarantee” a specific LAG path. For example,
>> there is a switch between the two end points, or in the case the reflector
>> is not capable.
>>
>> I.e., as you said, there is no "one method fits all" to guarantee the
>> path.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, this draft seek another way round, the member link validation
>> mechanism.
>>
>> There is an assumption in the introduction “This document intends to
>> address the scenario where a LAG directly connects two nodes (A and B).”
>>
>> With the member link validation, sender/reflector will drop measurement
>> data, when the test packet is not from the expected member link.
>>
>> In this way, the measurement could always be correct.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is somewhat similar to Paris Traceroute (
>> https://paris-traceroute.net/about/) IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tianran
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Henrik Nydell [mailto:hnydell@accedian.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 6:17 PM
>> *To:* Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
>> *Cc:* wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for
>> draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>>
>>
>>
>> I had a brief review but failed to find details on how the TWAMP sessions
>> would be "guaranteed" to travel on a certain LAG segment. As far as I know
>> the LAG implementation may be different between vendors and as such I know
>> of no "one method fits all" to actually accomplish the measurement.
>>
>>
>>
>> So this draft does not actually provide any solution to the problem of
>> being able to measure LAG segments separately and deterministically.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:03 AM Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran=
>> 40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Anjun,
>>
>> Thanks very much for your interest and comments.
>> Both are good questions.
>> Please see in line.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tianran
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn [mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 5:21 PM
>> To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; 'IETF IPPM WG' <ippm@ietf.org>
>> Subject: RE: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for
>> draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>>
>> Hi, Tianran:
>>
>> Have a brief review of this draft. I think its aim is straightforward and
>> will be useful to utilize the member link within the LAG.
>> Some comments are below:
>> 1) It seems there is no Sender/Reflector behavior description for the
>> Mirco OWAMP session and the packet format?
>>
>>
>> ZTR> OWAMP is simple and there is no reflector. The sender cannot get the
>> ack from the receiver. So we are not going to extend the OWAMP test packet.
>> The behavior is described in section 3.2:
>> " The micro OWAMP Sender MUST send the micro OWAMP-Test packets over the
>> member link with which the session is associated. When receives a Test
>> packet, the micro OWAMP receiver MUST use the member link from which the
>> Test packet is received to correlate the micro OWAMP session. If there is
>> no such a session, the Test packet MUST be discarded. "
>>
>> 2) For the newly defined Session-Sender Packet/Session-Reflector Packet,
>> how to assure the backward compatibility? What I have seen is that you add
>> two additional fields within the existing Packet?
>>
>> ZTR> I am not aware of the compatibility problem. If a node supports
>> micro session, it can understand the new packet extension. If a node does
>> not support micro session, it just ignores the new fields. Because the new
>> fields is in the reserved zone.
>> Moreover, the validation mechanism can figure out if the reflector can
>> support the micro session.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tianran Zhou
>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 2:23 PM
>> To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for
>> draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>>
>> Hi WG,
>>
>> We think this is an useful work on adapting OWAMP/TWAMP in LAG
>> performance measurement.
>> We updated this draft based on the comments from the meeting discussion
>> and mailing list.
>> Thanks for all the suggestions.
>> More reviews and comments are welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tianran
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 2:17 PM
>> To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>; Guo Jun <guo.jun2@zte.com.cn>;
>> Jun Guo <guo.jun2@zte.com.cn>; Rakesh Gandhi <rgandhi@cisco.com>;
>> Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; Zhenqiang Li <
>> li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Tianran Zhou and posted to the IETF
>> repository.
>>
>> Name:           draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag
>> Revision:       02
>> Title:          One-way/Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Extensions for
>> Performance Measurement on LAG
>> Document date:  2022-01-24
>> Group:          Individual Submission
>> Pages:          13
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02.txt
>> Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag/
>> Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag
>> Diff:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-li-ippm-otwamp-on-lag-02
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    This document defines extensions to One-way Active Measurement
>>    Protocol (OWAMP), and Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) to
>>    implement performance measurement on every member link of a Link
>>    Aggregation Group (LAG).  Knowing the measured metrics of each member
>>    link of a LAG enables operators to enforce the performance based
>>    traffic steering policy across the member links.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
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>> ippm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> *Henrik Nydell*
>> *Sr Product Manager*
>> 1.866.685.8181
>> hnydell@accedian.com
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> *Henrik Nydell*
> *Sr Product Manager*
> 1.866.685.8181
> hnydell@accedian.com
> <http://accedian.com>
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