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Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:38:35 +0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:28:28 +0000 (UTC) From: "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" To: Tommy Pauly , IETF IPPM WG , "Hamilton, Robert" Message-ID: <455953366.2272132.1706534908959@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <61AC7432-55A9-4E65-A1FE-CB23B3B414B0@apple.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2272131_1134725575.1706534908956" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22046 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 13:38:40 -0000 ------=_Part_2272131_1134725575.1706534908956 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob, Thanks so much for your support, review and comments. >=C2=A0What happens when one partner discovers the traffic has been corrupt= ed or intercepted, or otherwise appears suspect? Can the PDM conversation b= e=C2=A0> reinitiated safely at that point? Or should there be some kind of = banditry notification and/or session termination? One thing, we no longer do real-time decryption of the packets.=C2=A0 The p= ackets are decrypted offline by another process.=C2=A0 We have left that pr= ocess out of scope. But, we can certainly add that if a problem is found in decryption, this ma= y be due to "banditry" or another violation.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Enterprises care a= great deal about fraud, logging, and notifications of this sort so we will= certainly add that. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://www.insidethestack.com PresidentIndustry Network Technology Councilhttps://www.industrynetcouncil.= org=20 On Thursday, January 25, 2024 at 08:02:01 AM PST, Hamilton, Robert wrote: =20 =20 =20 I support the adoption of this draft, with just a few comments. =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 I noted in section 7.1.4: =20 Encrypted PDMv2 provides inherent protection against active attacks=C2=A0li= ke Message Modification by providing integrity.=C2=A0 If either of the=C2= =A0sequence number or encrypted PDMv2 contents are modified then decryption= will fail. =20 =C2=A0 =20 I suspect that the decryption function will actually work, but it will resu= lt in a garbled message instead of the original open text.=C2=A0If the PDM(= v2) conversation stream is corrupted like this, I=E2=80=99m not sure there= =E2=80=99s a way to reestablish it without reinitializing the secret, which= I think is what you had in mind with: =20 =C2=A0 When the Epoch rolls over, the SharedSecret SHOULD be re-negotiated.=20 =C2=A0 =20 in Section 4.1; potentially that could signal to the legitimate partner tha= t there is an issue, but it would signal to the MITM that the real partners= know he=E2=80=99s there, and could permit the MITM to observe the SharedSe= cret setup. It may be necessary simply to disable the PDM conversation inst= ead. =20 =C2=A0 =20 What happens when one partner discovers the traffic has been corrupted or i= ntercepted, or otherwise appears suspect? Can the PDM conversation be reini= tiated safely at that point? Or should there be some kind of banditry notif= ication and/or session termination? =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Thanks, =20 R; =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Rob Hamilton =20 Infrastructure Engineer =20 Chemical Abstracts Service=C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 =20 =C2=A0 =20 From: ippm On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 12:26 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [EXT] [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-05 =20 =C2=A0 =20 [Actual Sender is forwardingalgorithm@ietf.org] =20 Hello IPPM, =20 =C2=A0 =20 This email starts a Working Group Last Call for "IPv6 Performance and Diagn= ostic Metrics Version 2 (PDMv2) Destination=C2=A0Option=E2=80=9D, draft-iet= f-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-05. =20 =C2=A0 =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-05 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Please review the document and send your comments in response to this email= , along with whether you think the document is ready to progress. =20 =C2=A0 =20 This last call will be three weeks long, and end on Tuesday, January 30. In= parallel, we have requested another SECDIR review. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Best, =20 Tommy & Marcus=20 Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including an= y attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged infor= mation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If yo= u have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure,= copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is stric= tly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the se= nder immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600= . _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_2272131_1134725575.1706534908956 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,

Thanks so = much for your support, review and comments.

>&nb= sp;What happens when= one partner discovers the traffic has been corrupted or intercepted, or ot= herwise appears suspect? Can the PDM conversation be 
> reinitiated safely at that point? Or should there be some kind of ban= ditry notification and/or session termination?

=
One thing, we no longer do real-time decryption of the packets.&= nbsp; The packets are decrypted offline by another process.  We have l= eft that process out of scope.

But= , we can certainly add that if a problem is found in decryption, this may b= e due to "banditry" or another violation.   Enterprises care a gr= eat deal about fraud, logging, and notifications of this sort so we will ce= rtainly add that.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.=

President
Industry Network Technology Counci= l
https://www.industrynetcouncil.org


=20
=20
On Thursday, January 25, 2024 at 08:02:01 AM PST, Hamil= ton, Robert <rhamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


I support the adoption of this draft, with jus= t a few comments.

=20

 

=20

 

=20

I noted in section 7.1.4:

=20

Encrypted PDMv2 provides inherent protection against active attacks&n= bsp;like Message Modification by providing integrity.  If either of th= e sequence number or encrypted PDMv2 contents are modified then decryp= tion will fail.

=20

 

=20

I suspect that the decryption function will ac= tually work, but it will result in a garbled message instead of the origina= l open text. If the PDM(v2) conversation stream is corrupted like this, I=E2=80=99m not sure there=E2=80=99s a way to reestablish it wi= thout reinitializing the secret, which I think is what you had in mind with= :

=20

 

=20 
When the=
 Epoch rolls over, the SharedSecret SHOULD be re-negotiated.
= =20

 

=20

= in Section 4.1; potentially that could signal to the legitimate partner tha= t there is an issue, but it would signal to the MITM that the real partners know he=E2=80=99s there, and could permit the MITM to ob= serve the SharedSecret setup. It may be necessary simply to disable the PDM= conversation instead.

=20

 

=20

What happens when one partner discovers the tr= affic has been corrupted or intercepted, or otherwise appears suspect? Can = the PDM conversation be reinitiated safely at that point? Or should there be some kind of banditry notification and/or session termi= nation?

=20

 

=20

=  

=20

=  

=20

= Thanks,

=20

= R;

=20

=  

=20

=  

=20

= Rob Hamilton

=20

= Infrastructure Engineer

=20

= Chemical Abstracts Service 

=20

 

=20



=20

 

=20

From:= ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 12:26 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXT] [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-05=20

 

=20

[Actual Sender is forwardingalgorithm@ietf.org]

=20

Hello IPPM,

=20

 

=20

This email starts a Working = Group Last Call for "IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (PDM= v2) Destination Option=E2=80=9D, draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-05.=20

 

=20

 

=20

Please review the document a= nd send your comments in response to this email, along with whether you thi= nk the document is ready to progress.

=20

 

=20

This last call will be three= weeks long, and end on Tuesday, January 30. In parallel, we have re= quested another SECDIR review.

=20

 

=20

Best,

=20

Tommy & Marcus
=20

=20 Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmissi= on, including any attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or = privileged information from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Societ= y ("ACS"). If you have received this transmission in error, be advised that= any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this info= rmation is strictly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message an= d contact the sender immediately by either replying to this message or call= ing 614-447-3600.

_________________________________________= ______
ippm mailing list
ippm@i= etf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
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