RE: Normatively referenced specifications

SM <> Thu, 19 December 2013 06:39 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost ( []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A751AE03A for <>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:39:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YOpe1cRcgicx for <>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091C71AE015 for <>; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from (IDENT:sm@localhost []) (authenticated bits=0) by (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rBJ6d8lE021479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:39:20 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple;; s=mail2010; t=1387435161; bh=Z1upxiOFwmOliWNPDL7LtvHStjwQijlpMoEkPkP/g4A=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=3HrnhbfPVRO8ut2AC7sjoyuceGLIUopiHoNFgBthT1z9dgRLqvCf6eA/+c51vnt/q wmOeRNzFAiQ2CMdgTnKtoASi73bJ5S4BHbVAcacga6jUr+Qm/v8cIZeEqWdF4G8c+o Lz+V92kJgeRaifPzfk9oek9cgEO5jHez88sjs7K4=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple;; s=mail; t=1387435161;; bh=Z1upxiOFwmOliWNPDL7LtvHStjwQijlpMoEkPkP/g4A=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=wY51gFbpT320tVfCEt2x59kSMDIqkJbAvRPPkvz8N8fJQizFLUkAhyliVFSvmST8P 6h3nsJM/7m7YWf0V9Ww2NEuYlp3CDoODdumhqckR1gw6+KK2m4cI1/lhouHoJKKiCi dVd7FD4HVWjMJf6T95reBhxNeGq7IfK8HNuVd+3k=
Message-Id: <>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:37:47 -0800
From: SM <>
Subject: RE: Normatively referenced specifications
In-Reply-To: <077901cefc13$0da023e0$28e06ba0$>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <077901cefc13$0da023e0$28e06ba0$>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPR-WG <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 06:39:25 -0000

Hi Larry,
At 09:03 18-12-2013, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>Where in the IETF rules does it say that conformity to the spec is a legal
>requirement in order to implement it? How do you reconcile that with the
>open source rule that says that any FOSS software can be modified without
>asking additional permissions?

As far as I am aware the IETF does not do conformance.

>I know that a patent grant may or may not apply to modified works, but
>Dale's statement seems to make that an absolute in every circumstance, and
>makes conformity a prerequisite for implementation. Is conformity to the
>spec now the most important IETF goal, surpassing FOSS licensing freedom?

The goal(s) is a matter of participation.  If open source people are 
not participating in the discussion about a specification nobody 
would be bothered about the open source implications.  Likewise, if 
the licensing difficulties are not apparent one would assume that 
everything is okay.