Re: [IPsec] AD-VPN Protocol Selection

Yoav Nir <ynir@checkpoint.com> Mon, 03 February 2014 15:35 UTC

Return-Path: <ynir@checkpoint.com>
X-Original-To: ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DCB1A0153 for <ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 07:35:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.436
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.535, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id psjWZsdYRftt for <ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 07:35:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FAC1A0137 for <ipsec@ietf.org>; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 07:35:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.147]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s13FZQ87010178; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 17:35:26 +0200
X-CheckPoint: {52EFB077-2-1B221DC2-1FFFF}
Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.110]) by IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.228]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 3 Feb 2014 17:35:26 +0200
From: Yoav Nir <ynir@checkpoint.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Thread-Topic: [IPsec] AD-VPN Protocol Selection
Thread-Index: Ac8g29viSNWMxCSdS+mwPoqNzCPObQABFYQAAAEmJwA=
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 15:35:25 +0000
Message-ID: <44042206-E996-487F-9451-F42643E2D823@checkpoint.com>
References: <87BCDFB0B867FB4A85DB44EE8946E2458407E6F6@FSDEBSSXD111.fs01.vwf.vwfs-ad> <9636.1391439750@sandelman.ca>
In-Reply-To: <9636.1391439750@sandelman.ca>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.37]
x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: protection disabled
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <0A428ADEE3871742926D7ACE76BED257@ad.checkpoint.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "Harms, Patrick" <Patrick.Harms@vwfs.com>, "ipsec@ietf.org" <ipsec@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [IPsec] AD-VPN Protocol Selection
X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols <ipsec.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipsec>, <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipsec/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipsec@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec>, <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 15:35:30 -0000

On Feb 3, 2014, at 5:02 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

> 
> Harms, Patrick <Patrick.Harms@vwfs.com> wrote:
>> - is allowing to add 'spokes' without configuration changes on the 'hub'
>> devices (8.1 dmvpn draft)
> 
>> For me, this is an important point. Changing the configuration on the hub
>> routers, everytime a spoke is added to the network, would make the rollout
>> process to complex and is a possible source of failures.
> 
> I don't see how you can add a spoke in any system without requiring some
> changes to at least one hub and/or the database/LDAP/etc. which keeps track
> of all the spokes.

 1. You set up a CA
 2. You accept connections from anyone presenting a certificate from that CA
 3. You trust everything they tell you in routing protocols.

As long as only well-behaved spokes get issued certificates, and they never get compromised, everything is fine.

>> Based on the theories (advpn draft and dmvpn) and real world experience
>> (dmvpn), I would favor dmvpn, because the handling and operating sounds less
>> complex. (eg. lower amount of steps in tunnel initiation, single logical
>> interface for tunnel termination etc.)
> 
> Do you care about mobile (handheld) devices?

Hey, those are higher-specced than the dual-pentium III at 800MHz with 512 MB or RAM that we were selling as a high-end gateway when I started working at Check Point :-)

Yoav