Re: [IPsec] I-D on Using the ECC Brainpool Curves for IKEv2 Key Exchange

Andrey Jivsov <openpgp@brainhub.org> Thu, 03 January 2013 07:07 UTC

Return-Path: <openpgp@brainhub.org>
X-Original-To: ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0505A21F8917 for <ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 23:07:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.078
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.359, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d2vGcA-n9l13 for <ipsec@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 23:07:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:43:76:96:30:32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B83C21F88F1 for <ipsec@ietf.org>; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 23:07:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.92]) by qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jK2o1k0051zF43QA3K71ST; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:07:01 +0000
Received: from [192.168.1.8] ([69.181.162.123]) by omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id jK701k0052g33ZR8kK71kj; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:07:01 +0000
Message-ID: <50E52E14.5080603@brainhub.org>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 23:07:00 -0800
From: Andrey Jivsov <openpgp@brainhub.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120605 Thunderbird/13.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ipsec@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1357196821; bh=QtljU/MwWYppd9DPd41b0D60S1N5M2HE4xwWhvKO6ho=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=mnl8AM9/9QdGR4fMVaO1EQFCmCZGcvexq2K0lUM6MZKO5vZ/lUpqkcc4O5tYjl1ih tqlV4hwP+abXl26NCxZxCcktUnF9LQylgkFpGs16S0spds9eBr9DhOtRV02mMhAs6x 3rbH1fNyN0UYucPDTTQNfRpTfMOiH0ToN7Ivq4ExUresbMeZQGsJBsBM8kF7H1d+Hw T+v+1HNJCqdcsaU7ZyUDAoUch2iK/GhutodRiFchw7uef592c08kCcatA2+XJ3C9ge D1DEHLURNgScyomXEn7vaZWoMO5e7dp0OfaOSeiffVgh/Ylhte+eowtZ+lm6e9+6r0 gp26penBD9tFg==
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:55:16 -0800
Subject: Re: [IPsec] I-D on Using the ECC Brainpool Curves for IKEv2 Key Exchange
X-BeenThere: ipsec@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of IPsec protocols <ipsec.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipsec>, <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipsec>
List-Post: <mailto:ipsec@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec>, <mailto:ipsec-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:07:03 -0000

Sorry for bringing up this so late, but I just noticed the discussion 
about the point compression in this thread.

I posted the "Compact representation of an elliptic curve point" 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jivsov-ecc-compact that I think is 
helpful as a generic definition of a compressed point.

I know that 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-merkle-ikev2-ke-brainpool/ -03 
moved away from the compressed representation, but the preceding 
discussion is one of the reasons why I created this draft. It's 
unfortunate that with current state of ECC at IETF there is always an 
uncertainty/complexity such as "do we use an uncompressed point or 
compressed point; and there is IPR". There is also an issue of what's 
hashed and how the {x,y} is encoded. In the end in practice this means 
that there is no compression used.

I want to add as an alternative point of view that for new features or 
protocols there is also a way to reduce complexity by using only the 
compact point representation, such as in 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jivsov-ecc-compact.