Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway
Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> Thu, 05 December 1996 04:23 UTC
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by portal.ex.tis.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) id XAA28071 for ipsec-outgoing; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:23:16 -0500 (EST)
X-Sender: kent@po1.bbn.com
Message-Id: <v0300780aaecbfc706a1d@[128.33.229.243]>
In-Reply-To: <199612041911.LAA02222@cornpuffs.cisco.com>
References: <v03007802aec93e33ca30@[128.33.229.245]> <9611028495.AA849549400@netx.nei.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:18:46 -0500
To: Ran Atkinson <rja@cisco.com>
From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway
Cc: ipsec@tis.com
Sender: owner-ipsec@ex.tis.com
Precedence: bulk
Ran, I'll comment on your suggestion that we retain mandatory use of encryption in ESP. I feel that AH is an awkward way to provide authentication for a payload, due to the selective inclusion of IP header fields. The computation of the integrity check value will be slower than a corresponding computation for ESP, because of the selectivity of the computation. AH does offer a different function from ESP, even if ESP is offered in a version that provides integrity and autenticity without encryption. ESP, if allowed to be used without encryption, provides a clean way to integrity protect just encapsulated data, if that is what is wanted. I suspect that this latter capability will often be appropriate, a the recent firewall discussion has shown. I agree that the original distinction between AH and ESP was one in which the encryption vs. integrity/authenticity was the primary motivation. However, the other major difference is the scope of the protection, with AH and ESP differing noticeably in that regard as well. As ESP added more features, I think it makes more sense to allow for it to be more modular, and to reserve the use of AH for exactly the circumstances where it's coverage of the IP header is appropriate. The notion of tunnel mode for AH has not been a very strong one in the documents, though it certainly can be added. However, I suggest we consider the better documented tunnel mode notion of ESP, combined with the new notion of an encryptionless use of ESP, as a candidate for many instances where one might have used tunneled AH. Unless the protection of the "outer" IP header is necessary e.g., to bind a security label to the outer packet, tunneled AH would appear to offer no advantages relative to this mode of use of ESP. Steve
- AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Whelan, Bill
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Michael Richardson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Michael Richardson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway pau
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Whelan, Bill
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway William Allen Simpson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Michael Richardson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway David P. Kemp
- Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Ran Atkinson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Michael Richardson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Daniel Harkins
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Hilarie Orman
- Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Whelan, Bill
- Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Bill Sommerfeld
- Re[4]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Whelan, Bill
- Re: Re[4]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Bill Sommerfeld
- Re[4]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Karl Fox
- Re[5]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Whelan, Bill
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re[5]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Michael Richardson
- Re: Re[5]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Bob Monsour
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re: Re[5]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Steven Bellovin
- Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Whelan, Bill
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Brian McKenney
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Perry E. Metzger
- Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Brian McKenney
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Ran Atkinson
- Re: Re[5]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Ran Atkinson
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Uri Blumenthal
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Daniel Harkins
- Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Naganand Doraswamy
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Steven Bellovin
- Re: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Steven Bellovin
- Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Stephen Kent
- Re: Re[2]: AH (without ESP) on a secure gateway Dan Frommer