Re: [IPsec] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Michael Richardson <> Wed, 21 November 2018 18:25 UTC

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From: Michael Richardson <>
To: Paul Wouters <>
cc: Warren Kumari <>,, The IESG <>
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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 13:25:29 -0500
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Subject: Re: [IPsec] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Paul Wouters <>; wrote:
    >> Sadly, very few regular users use IPsec/IKEv2 for this kind of access.

    > This is very incorrect.

    > Almost all VPN providers for apple (OSX and iOS) use IKEv2 with
    > CP. Based on numbers of concurrent users I have seen from some vendors
    > using libreswan, we are talking in the orders of 100’s of thousands of
    > users.

That's awesome news to learn!!!
I haven't seen this in the wild myself, and it's not the case in Android as
you point out.

    > One of the main reasons: MOBIKE with phones using wifi and 4/5G and
    > network switching.

So that's a good really good result.  Kudos.
Sometimes the tortoise does win the race with better technology.

    > For Android, the situation is bad. Due to the OS not properly
    > supporting IKEv2, most VPN services bundle openvpn apps for android and
    > very few bundle strongswan with its userland ESP that can do IKEv2.

I'm aware that they (Android) were thinking about fixing this, but nothing
has happened yet to my knowledge.

    >> In almost all cases the VPN provider is in control of the software that is
    >> installed on the client system, so they can hijack paypal already.

    > This is also incorrect. All OSX and iOS provisioning happens via
    > .mobileconfig profiles or apps using apple API’s that are

I'm talking here about people using VPNConnect, OpenConnect, some .MSI that
actually installs OpenVPN on windows, etc.

    >> But, this seems terribly unlikely since just getting two VPNs installed
    >> (and compatible) and running at the same time is such deep VPN-fu, that it's
    >> like only half the IPsec WG members that could ever make this work anyway.

    > It is currently uncommon indeed but I think and hope we will see more
    > of this, especially when we all want a continuous VPN link up to our
    > home network.

I also want it to be easier.

I see IPv6 for the Enterprise remote-access VPN as instrumental to making
this happen.  Each Enterprise can embed their IPv4 RFC1918 address space into
a unique IPv6 prefix, and can NAT64 to get to actual internal legacy services
if they have to.

]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [
]        |   ruby on rails    [

Michael Richardson <>;, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-