Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06]
otroan@employees.org Fri, 20 January 2017 18:17 UTC
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Subject: Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06]
From: otroan@employees.org
In-Reply-To: <CAN-Dau2ygz+iTtZ_hLLPMPs-tVYjeQUaknLeCj82ba938DZ9-A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 00:52:43 +0100
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To: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
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Dave, > Given that what we are left with is policy, I think it is quite harsh of you to declare that there is no consensus on the current text on the IETF list. > There are good technical arguments for why each host needs more than a single address, and if we end up in a situation similar to IPv4 where each address used has to be justified, then we have lost. There is a justified fear that allowing the 64 bit boundary to slide, we will end up in a situation similar to IPv4 addressing. E.g. charging per address. > > I'm a little worried that your fighting yesterday's battle. To be honest, I'm less worried about charing for more than one IP address. I'm much more worried about charging for more than one subnet. In fact, I'm worried a hard and inflexible boundary at /64 reinforces a model for charging for more than one subnet. > > If that happens would you prefer people use NTPv6 or NAT66? I'd prefer a more flexible subnet boundary, that allows the18 quadrillion addresses in a /64 to be broken into smaller subnets. Therein lays the paradox. If the IETF were to standardise arbitrary prefix length > 64 you end up being charged per address. If implementations don't support arbitrary prefix lengths > 64 you end up having to do NAT66, ND proxy... Which is why all implementations should support arbitrary prefix length, but not tell anyone. ;-) > > Furthermore, we are talking about giving individual devices their own subnets. I like this model and with today's scale that will be fine. But, longer-term this has me worried, especially if we keep a inflexible /64 boundary. That would require extreme waste in the first 64 bits... 2^64 number of addresses is an awfully big number. > This is where the IETF has to perform a fine balancing act. On one side ensure that the 64 bit boundary stands, at the other side ensure that all implementors do not enshrine a hard-coded boundary in their implementations. > > Ok, are you willing to put that in the document? The /64 requirement, is a political consideration, not a technical one. Because other than /64 subnets are clearly technically possible, we have evidence of it in RFC 7421. But unless we also kept some technical limitations, would anyone accept the boundary if it was purely policy? (And at this point there is surely a lot more technical reasons than just SLAAC.) Best regards, Ole
- Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian Haberman
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Punana Lebo
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian Haberman
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 David Farmer
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 heasley
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Suresh Krishnan
- AW: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Karsten Thomann
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 sthaug
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: AW: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Fernando Gont
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Fernando Gont
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 heasley
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Mark Smith
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Fernando Gont
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 John C Klensin
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 David Farmer
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Mark Smith
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Mark Smith
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Erik Kline
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Erik Kline
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Erik Kline
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Tim Chown
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fred Baker
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Unclear text [was IID length text [was Re: Review… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Unclear text [was IID length text [was Re: Re… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Timothy Winters
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Re: Unclear text [was IID length text [was Re: Re… otroan
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… james woodyatt
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… 神明達哉
- Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Sander Steffann
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Updated IID length text Templin, Fred L
- Re: Updated IID length text Mark Andrews
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Suresh Krishnan
- Re: IID length text Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Updated IID length text Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- RE: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Bob Hinden
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Tore Anderson
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Tore Anderson
- Re: IID length text sthaug
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Bob Hinden
- Re: Updated IID length text Suresh Krishnan