Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt]

David Farmer <> Sun, 19 November 2017 22:37 UTC

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From: David Farmer <>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:36:55 -0600
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Subject: Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt]
To: Jordi Palet Martinez <>
Cc: 6man WG <>
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On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:50 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <> wrote:

> Agree with your analysis, but the problem I see is that many WiFi networks
> are very simple, even with high level of congestion, and they may not be
> able to apply such simple filters. Even home networks may have the same
> issues.
> One way or the other, hosts get updated frequently, but switches, APs and
> L2 infrastructure don’t, even CEs or small routers in many hotspots don’t
> get updated.
> Also, IPv4-only devices are typically never updated. For example, you buy
> today an IP camera, and is not easy to find one which is dual-stack. Of
> course, in this case the problem is different, because they will not work
> in a NAT64 IPv6-only network …
> Because most of this traffic is created by laptops, tablets and
> smartphones that are the ones with frequently get updated, may be the ideal
> solution will be something in the stack, not relaying in the router update
> (so not relaying in RA, options, etc.), that automatically detects the lack
> of IPv4 support (trying to avoid fake DHCP servers), so they automatically
> stop sending any IPv4 traffic, or even using IPv4 link-local?
> Regards,
> Jordi

We're not going to be able drain the swamp of unmanaged networks and
devices.  They already have serious problems with rogue DHCP server, too
many broadcasts not letting battery powered devices sleep, security
problems like crazy, etc... Changing them to IPv6-only isn't going to
fundamentally fix their problems. In fact changing them to IPv6-only, I'm
afraid will only make their problems worse, not better.  I think IPv6-only
(tuning off IPv4) is a way forward for managed networks, not for unmanaged
networks. Unfortunately, I think unmanaged networks are better off with
dual-stack and keeping classic IPv4 support.

The open question in my mind is can a managed IPv6-only network support
unmanaged BYOD devices, that is my goal for this work. If both the network
and the devices are managed you should be able to do IPv6-only right now,
the 3G/LTE guys have shown that.  The open question is can we do the same
thing on managed WiFi and BYOD, with literally no control over the devices.


David Farmer     
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952