Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host)
Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org> Mon, 13 November 2017 02:08 UTC
Return-Path: <nordmark@acm.org>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C486912785F; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:08:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.934
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.934 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4wwzq_MxPsZt; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:07:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from d.mail.sonic.net (d.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19A1C126CB6; Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:07:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [31.133.137.43] (dhcp-892b.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.137.43]) (authenticated bits=0) by d.mail.sonic.net (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id vAD27cHn005676 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 12 Nov 2017 18:07:40 -0800
Subject: Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host)
To: DY Kim <dykim6@gmail.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Cc: IPv6 Operations <v6ops@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "6man-ads@tools.ietf.org" <6man-ads@ietf.org>, "v6ops-ads@ietf.org" <v6ops-ads@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host@tools.ietf.org
References: <be9724f5-2ff5-d90c-2749-ecae2c628b78@si6networks.com> <CAKD1Yr0_a2Qm8U4oK+BQU57DeDUD9i-o_+G+YhnH4pVXRxmxxQ@mail.gmail.com> <BBB987EF-D91C-4FD1-9084-21382F24E7BF@gmail.com> <37b58331-ecfc-aaf8-bde4-91dd4d375834@si6networks.com> <029B5A33-0C3F-4021-BA86-50E6DF37F879@gmail.com> <59F47233-62ED-489D-9421-00128C8E7EB2@fugue.com> <7532e311-be94-1b9e-b9f1-8b12e9d6ee79@si6networks.com> <A790D1BF-A617-4256-9633-E9A5FB77537A@gmail.com> <203d7ede-2169-4a04-e545-2eb48144eac3@si6networks.com> <0045136C-91FA-4B31-91E0-D2D44E7433AB@gmail.com>
From: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>
Message-ID: <17184d11-ece0-38c4-3d94-af2972deb7cd@acm.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:07:37 +0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <0045136C-91FA-4B31-91E0-D2D44E7433AB@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVbzTx8m5OB22l3criAqsrHSwLIAU179eze9HPlHellPqITck2lZxYTU4oinLVKJ7h+3F13JM7V6oIPVykQrSKUN
X-Sonic-ID: C;6GlpbBfI5xGlQIlQ3iMJ6w== M;BHVabRfI5xGlQIlQ3iMJ6w==
X-Sonic-Spam-Details: 0.0/5.0 by cerberusd
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/2m7b9hz8vXnmdt92aJe4C-T5sYw>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:08:03 -0000
On 11/11/2017 11:54 AM, DY Kim wrote: > The ‘state’ in the wording SLAAC means that of the host, I mean. DY, The history of why SLAAC has "stateless" in its name in its name doesn't match your statement. When SLAAC was created there was BOOTP/DHCP for IPv4, but not work had started on what would later become DHCPv6, but such work was anticipated. The use of "stateless" was to distinguish SLAAC from the case where there is a network service (akin to DHCP) which retains state about the allocations made for hosts. At that time the use of DHCPv4 for IPv4 address allocation was quite new and not very robust and there was concerns about IPv6 having a hard dependency on such a service. Also, further back in time, at the Big10 meeting of the IPng directorate was the first time I heard the 128 bit address format be discussed with the idea than an IPv6 address could be formed using (a) prefix(es) advertised by the router and a 48 byte mac address of the host following an approach which had been used in other protocols (IPX I believe). The fact that as IPv6 then evolved that evolved from 48 byte MAC to 64 bit IID and the IID's later became more friendly to privacy considerations doesn't change the fact that we have never added a requirement that routers speaking SLAAC maintain per-host allocation information; they do maintain per-link configuration information. Whether the split in to stateless and stateful (aka DHCPv6) address allocation was a wise choice is something I leave as an exercise to the reader. I merely offer the observation that we keep on muddling any boundaries between stateless and stateful address allocation and also between address allocation and host configuration. The resulting larger number of possible implementation and configuration choices on the host and network/router side doesn't seem helpful in facilitating interoperable protocols. Regards, Erik > > SLAAC don’t need to require the router to do anything special, other than the router’s usual prefix advertisement through an RA. > > The same is true of the case wherein DHCP is used to assign addresses to hosts by the router. > > How the router keeps the link prefix info in its system is an interest neither to DHCP or SLAAC, since the link prefix itself is not about address assignment in which DHCP and SLAAC are interested. > > How the router keeps the link prefix(es), whether shared or unique to each hosts, is an issue of the router system implementation, not of the protocols DHCP or SLAAC. > > Hence, the question about how the prefix(es) are stored or recovered should be addressed to the router spec, neither to DHCP, nor to SLAAC, nor to this draft, I’d think. > > --- > DY > >> On 11 Nov 2017, at 12:16, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote: >> >> On 11/11/2017 12:13 AM, DY Kim wrote: >>> The host’s state. >>> >>> RFC 4862: >>> >>> "This document specifies the steps a host takes in deciding how to autoconfigure its interfaces in IP version 6 (IPv6).” >>> >>> "The stateless mechanism allows a host to generate its own addresses using a combination of locally available information and information advertised by routers." >> >> Host state, maintained at the router? >> >> >> -- >> Fernando Gont >> SI6 Networks >> e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com >> PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >
- Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-pref… Fernando Gont
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… DY Kim
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Erik Kline
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Erik Kline
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Warren Kumari
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fernando Gont
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fernando Gont
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fred Baker
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Warren Kumari
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Bob Hinden
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Bob Hinden
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Erik Nordmark
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DaeYoung KIM
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Enno Rey
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Michael H Lambert
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fred Baker
- DHCPv6 PD route injection (was: Re: [v6ops] State… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6 PD route injection (was: Re: S… Brzozowski, John
- Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Stateful S… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Statef… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] Upleveling discussion (was Re: Statef… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Statef… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Upleveling discussion (was Re: Statef… Gert Doering
- Re: Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Statef… Fernando Gont