RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04.txt> (Path MTU Discovery for IP version 6) to Internet Standard

"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Fri, 03 February 2017 20:11 UTC

Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0150412989B for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:11:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.22
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D90kmJno-08K for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:11:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1962129889 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:11:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v13KBS3A018060; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:11:28 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.220]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v13KBK7Q017923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:11:20 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (137.136.238.222) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (137.136.239.220) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:11:19 -0800
Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:11:19 -0800
From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04.txt> (Path MTU Discovery for IP version 6) to Internet Standard
Thread-Topic: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04.txt> (Path MTU Discovery for IP version 6) to Internet Standard
Thread-Index: AQHSflRhxQkjQeSUSUmMdeSSGas9vKFXtCkQ
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 20:11:19 +0000
Message-ID: <d88138da05e44b48bbffd18cb68c0b87@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <148599312602.18643.4886733052828400859.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1859B1D9-9E42-4D65-98A8-7A326EDDE560@netapp.com> <014D8A7C-449E-4849-9F49-990FF8B39DEF@employees.org> <88A7C2AD-8D33-4AFF-8AF4-A1B8718C47BD@netapp.com> <B6DD0238-3D98-400E-865D-EC32FD6F22EA@employees.org> <678442be-60cc-6b6e-ebee-932cb0badb26@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <678442be-60cc-6b6e-ebee-932cb0badb26@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-MML: disable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/5zfq7t_FhK8s7x7H_rdobovGbo8>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 20:11:31 -0000

Hi,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:33 AM
> To: ipv6@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04.txt> (Path MTU Discovery for IP version 6) to Internet Standard
> 
> On 03/02/2017 23:52, otroan@employees.org wrote:
> ...
> > PLMTUD is better, and it is even better combined with PMTUD. But PLMTUD isn't deployed everywhere, nor used for UDP etc..
> > I don't see how that has any bearing on making 1981 an Internet standard.
> >
> > I would really encourage more work on the Path MTU discovery problem though. Possibly combined with removing fragmentation
> from the IP layer. But that's far outside of the context of taking 1981 to Internet standard.
> 
> Exactly. We aren't required to show that RFC1981 works in all circumstances. We're
> required to show that it works interoperably and is widely implemented.
> 
> Lars - nobody disagrees, I think, that we need to get RFC4821 widely implemented,
> but that is a separate thing entirely.

A note about RFC4821. We think it will work for end-to-end MTU determination and
black hole avoidance, but from discussions on intarea we now no longer think it will be
applicable to tunnel endpoints. That is because the tunnel ingress is not the source
of the original packets - it is only the source of the tunneled packets and the RFC4821
probes. And, if the original packets (once admitted into the tunnel) travel a different
path than the probes the system could black hole.

Is this worth an errata to RFC4821?

Thanks - Fred
fred.l.templin@boeing.com

>     Brian
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------