Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: IPv6 first-hop risks and threats and mitigations

Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> Mon, 21 December 2020 18:27 UTC

Return-Path: <christopher.morrow@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FC713A1314; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 10:27:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tkskBVy8muhm; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 10:27:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qt1-x82f.google.com (mail-qt1-x82f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D4CB3A1310; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 10:27:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id j26so7241731qtq.8; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 10:27:08 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=u7Xjz1DOL3Byo2EkXvbb5x3HVNVcD8sAU2Vqqp6Cgkk=; b=F5BoJPX0+DvxWKC/QqLzV0nfqGCUqX1WyRPe6YGx4TlGISmvBUXIsxpk9LeriIdtV/ BVOyUbvqGICI1tt3ktztBrND0/UoysLiwz9quYyVXaXlKd9f3G4I9+lMHjP3J9Ebc5vG 6XupkB1b29rI1ERrLaFNr59iCu3QoWjUlWDSEVZRW0hMdB+2iMqXO5YX4y0uGk7BwSKY xZ7z2MxGhRShNYjh6BAWbmO0mN8vTeZM2rZN35DzQ+2xo3A+jdMeIVofQAfSDdlxvLPW iTpO+YffbUgULZF3ONRngisMtEt+ZFmNkfYaP7RmUKkkSguUgNF2cLMYOU66XJFFKtm0 0OMg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=u7Xjz1DOL3Byo2EkXvbb5x3HVNVcD8sAU2Vqqp6Cgkk=; b=hNaJCg1TaLBcDU8SwU/HbFjBE7V5pdu8KgZUh6fRxqm24BRoB7F4asvGmQ20444pku 5BBNNof55tbRrbZqUTDDNJPbyyg8V7ZdCHKN/b0PpXVLOsizcp2sl7Fcs/Pc/lHyE3us BT3duhkxTSPhvhZ1K0tmBZvckoZSDKGsVbBdioclG1yTBCALS216NXRsZkIEabf3EqTX Yd1JGqFP82K3wAh89ZcxbW17YJyZzFfH4pU/zdeqSAgQPe1qTh0GzQXijSyJW1qLDXoy Ftf5g8956jYvKIsmIRoU7a446bkMYRyzVOMmF1SqKqKHvH9QzK8yXof7JxtrxMDLT4ue dHMw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533R1wMPdkovbhGTmNZTWno+CzFnI4ZjAelmQKWJQnEy2D1xZsNo en3PFh5s4yShs+vi1rRBXYKq1sZ6xLF1NuyB1z0=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyYZig6s9dqC5BDGnC10bbuRb9sY84TbiLwYl7y2SNwzRtoANjn+kIulFqpnDtXBaJ0cFKs/tmBqCEuIW303p8=
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4e4f:: with SMTP id e15mr17706635qtw.110.1608575227359; Mon, 21 Dec 2020 10:27:07 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <160603202606.8188.11893701417034577472@ietfa.amsl.com> <7B0EBC9E-4831-4005-98D9-5010CD1097F6@cisco.com> <CAMugd_UrsgmYTSg-abzuHt5ry2dxrU8gLFAQn+WkgcupGbrc5Q@mail.gmail.com> <74f40b386fc24d288412663a707517e4@huawei.com> <20462.1606091054@localhost> <c3267d8670d74df2a61e260c65981ad5@huawei.com> <CAL9jLaYzHPK10otASo8f5MS8+FcEPvPz3RRYGVkbH-M3hA4BMQ@mail.gmail.com> <CO1PR11MB4881A14E830E7DBA92334DB2D8C30@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <CO1PR11MB4881A14E830E7DBA92334DB2D8C30@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 13:26:56 -0500
Message-ID: <CAL9jLaZ+FTQ6yo=f0uKhLFeHWhF6iyt30hc-qG8CpnqOwJxBGw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: IPv6 first-hop risks and threats and mitigations
To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
Cc: Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Nabil Benamar <benamar73@gmail.com>, 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/87jeomvmDy2Csyl1u6A5DkI5T_I>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 18:27:11 -0000

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:59 AM Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
<pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> You got me confused Christopher.

or completely possible I'm confused :)

> Both Jen and Fernando are quite prolific, and I see many point solutions, but I do not see a problem statement such as the one Xipeng is proposing. Would you have a pointer to the doc(s) you have in mind.
>

I had thought fernando/jen's set of documents pushed forth a basic set
of protections (or possible protections) for IPv6 hosts, things like:
  filtering the right set of icmp type/code
  filtering of fragments in the wide area
  inability to use certain header types (due to similar filtering problems)

a quick look through their author profiles:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/person/Fernando%20Gont
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/person/furry13@gmail.com

shows a raft of documents related to host/network problems with ipv6.
I suppose: "Yes there is no overarching architecture, design,
implementation, threat-analysis, requirements document set for this"
(nor something that walks readers through the published documents and
shows where gaps may be (or what gaps these documents patch)

> With a larger view, one may derive a different set of solutions that may be more work but still worthwhile with respect to the amount of issues that this could solve.

sure!

> Enjoy the break!
>
> pascal
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com>
> > Sent: jeudi 17 décembre 2020 18:29
> > To: Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>
> > Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>ca>; Nabil Benamar
> > <benamar73@gmail.com>om>; Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>om>;
> > 6man Chairs <6man-chairs@ietf.org>rg>; ipv6@ietf.org
> > Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: IPv6 first-hop risks and threats and
> > mitigations
> >
> > I thought this was work Fernando Gont / Jen Linkova already undertook... or
> > had already taking some large steps to cover at any rate.
> > Were their docs not helpful here?
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:37 PM Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Michael,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >> So, the idea being to write down the issues, give the attacks names, and
> > then clarify what defenses we have already and how well they work?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes.  Are you interested in working on this together?  Happy holidays!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > XiPeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Richardson [mailto:mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 1:24 AM
> > > To: Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>om>; Nabil Benamar
> > > <benamar73@gmail.com>om>; Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
> > > <pthubert=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; 6man Chairs
> > > <6man-chairs@ietf.org>rg>; ipv6@ietf.org
> > > Subject: IPv6 first-hop risks and threats and mitigations
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >     > I also think that it’s a good piece of work, and shouldn’t be given up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     > I would also like to take this opportunity to propose that the
> > > WG start
> > >
> > >     > a “problem statement of IPv6 first-hop protocols” draft.  The
> > > rationale
> > >
> > >     > is: many IPv6 first-hop protocols like ND, SLAAC were designed
> > > long
> > >
> > >     > time ago; many things have changed over the years, e.g. the
> > > advent of
> > >
> > >     > wireless, mobility, IoT, overlays;  lately there are multiple
> > > drafts
> > >
> > >     > trying to fix various issues in a number of IPv6 first-hop
> > > protocols,
> > >
> > >     > including:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So, the idea being to write down the issues, give the attacks names, and
> > then clarify what defenses we have already and how well they work?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
> > >
> > >            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> > > ipv6@ietf.org
> > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------