RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people come from?
"Bernier, Daniel" <daniel.bernier@bell.ca> Thu, 28 May 2020 14:23 UTC
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Subject: RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people come from?
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From: "Bernier, Daniel" <daniel.bernier@bell.ca>
To: "Voyer, Daniel" <daniel.voyer@bell.ca>, "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>, "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
CC: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT]RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people come from?
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Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 14:23:04 +0000
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+1 to my colleagues comment Moreover, every open community thrives at trying to grow and add new active participants, committers (just look at the IETF Hackathons attendees growth). It would be counter-intuitive if WG were actually proposing the opposite. Thanks, Dan B On 2020-05-28, 10:11 AM, "ipv6 on behalf of Voyer, Daniel" <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of daniel.voyer@bell.ca> wrote: Hello Fred, I too, come from the real-world, the operator side which implies wireline & wireless network. It's pretty awesome that you have an aviation hat though, I can't claim that I have a "drone hat" .. just yet. But with this new ecosystem where we try to have an end-to-end type architecture, from access network, to metro and core network and try to adapt to a 5G/MEC, I believe we are redefining boundaries between domains. What's happening in 6man AND SPRING working group just reflect those new changes. New contributors coming in is not just happening to those 2 working group, there's also new contributors showing at DMM wg, and there's wireline folks attending 3GPP (not just related to segment routing). Proposing to "reject" or "treat" new contributors separately makes an "us and them" type of relationship and it's not good for reaching a form of consensus. Regards, dan On 2020-05-28, 9:54 AM, "ipv6 on behalf of Templin (US), Fred L" <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: Ole, > It seems that a proxy war is being fought out in the working group. > With both opponents and proponents of proposals closely aligned along company borders. I am representing real-world use cases (planes, trains and automobiles) with my aviation hat on. I do not work for a network equipment vendor and do not have company influences driving my decisions. I think this flood of people coming into 6man many for the first time is bad for the 6man technical process and may interfere with the timely need for solutions to real world problems. I trust that the chairs will recognize what is going on and make the right decisions. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of otroan@employees.org > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 5:12 AM > To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> > Cc: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people come from? > > Segment Routing (CRH, SRH and friends) isn't something 6man has traditionally dealt with. > We have been more concerned about IPv6 in the open Internet, end to end, and not so much of technologies only applicable within a > controlled domain. > > From that perspective, it is not surprising that this work attracts a different participant-set than before. > > It seems that a proxy war is being fought out in the working group. > With both opponents and proponents of proposals closely aligned along company borders. > > Best regards, > Ole, with the dystopian hat on. > > > > On 28 May 2020, at 13:23, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I've been an active participant in the ipng, 6man and v6ops IETF working groups since 2002. > > > > While I've only been to one IETF meeting in person since then (106, sponsored by the Internet Society), over that time I've come to > recognise the names of many of the regular and active participants in these IPv6 working groups. > > > > I do not recognise many of the names of people who are objecting to the 6man working group adopting the CRH draft. > > > > Those who have been active 6man participants in recent years would know that even an ID adopted by 6man, written by Bob and > Brian, that had a number of revisions, didn't survive WG last call, and that occurred while Bob was (as he still is) one of the 6man WG > chairs. > > > > > > Regards, > > Mark. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Philip Homburg
- So where have all these new 6man WG people come f… Mark Smith
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Andrew Alston
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… tom petch
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Voyer, Daniel
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… otroan
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Voyer, Daniel
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Bernier, Daniel
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Andrew Alston
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Nick Hilliard
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Xing Li
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Sander Steffann
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… otroan
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Adrian Farrel
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… 神明達哉
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Voyer, Daniel
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Ron Bonica
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Fernando Gont
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Turchanyi Geza
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Greg Mirsky
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Andrew Alston
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Need a journalist (Re: So where have all these ne… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Need a journalist (Re: So where have all thes… Ca By
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Andrew Alston
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Robert Raszuk
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Andrew Alston
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Robert Raszuk
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Andrew Alston
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Robert Raszuk
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Stewart Bryant
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Ron Bonica
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Stewart Bryant
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Fred Baker
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Voyer, Daniel
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Ted Lemon
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Jared Mauch
- RE: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Ron Bonica
- One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have all… Toerless Eckert
- RE: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Greg Mirsky
- Re: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Toerless Eckert
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Greg Mirsky
- RE: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Mark Smith
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Robert Raszuk
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Mark Smith
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Robert Raszuk
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Ole Troan
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Stewart Bryant
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Stewart Bryant
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Carsten Bormann
- Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people co… Toerless Eckert
- Re: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Philip Homburg
- RE: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… John Scudder
- RE: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: One size fits all !?! (was: Re: So where have… Philip Homburg