Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06]
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 17 January 2017 03:39 UTC
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Subject: Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06]
To: Erik Kline <ek@google.com>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
References: <148406593094.22166.2894840062954191477.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <18e6e13c-e605-48ff-4906-2d5531624d64@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1cvZ8Y3+bHeML=Xwqr+YgDspZGnZi=jqQj4qe2kMc4zw@mail.gmail.com> <m2lguffnco.wl-randy@psg.com> <CAKD1Yr1TrTiPRdyutobmb_77XJ7guNzLrg=H_p7qi4BfQ8V=GA@mail.gmail.com> <m2d1frfm6m.wl-randy@psg.com> <CAKD1Yr2Njjd8_Mr+6TRFF6C5pdcX4yFgpFVyEkykDuytu2B8mg@mail.gmail.com> <2A5073777007277764473D78@PSB> <4596c3d4-a337-f08e-7909-f14270b7085f@gmail.com> <CAN-Dau06R3iYRpYLADhvHox4C9qdsJCuxFsJapRhOQcWT4qk_g@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2weZcoHiBzN94QAQ9WGhWR16PmMMFNg=5YLmr_dhPjjpA@mail.gmail.com> <fcf580ec-3617-ca5f-5337-37acb6e928ba@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr25zNeQGvNJa=WzCjKMd9LaYrSwG=o4tUWn1Zc2ASZjrA@mail.gmail.com> <93700502-5d49-86ce-11b0-ab9904423961@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr3wyza0_enWErMhmKKkA1ZOXPv5GG8dMT8HUQZsB5--UQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAAedzxppi5g_S05-m+B2jKMYePapPM0_wMA4XioYgwipwbKVHQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAAedzxoY6MGyvzDvUcZ44ka=5RcGwQ16fzRp29445Pa7mQYNHA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <f6c9288c-4f67-6b4a-3e56-ae2861f2d120@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:39:32 +1300
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Erik, On 17/01/2017 15:36, Erik Kline wrote: > On 17 January 2017 at 11:18, Erik Kline <ek@google.com> wrote: >> On 17 January 2017 at 10:08, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:57 AM, Brian E Carpenter >>> <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> what's the specific rationale for this change? Is it a bug in 4291 which >>>>> you're proposing that we resolve in 4291 bis? If so, what is the bug? >>>> >>>> The bug is that in SLAAC, the IID length is a parameter, not a constant, >>>> and that in routing protocols, the prefix length is a parameter, not >>>> a constant. The addressing architecture needs to recognise that. >>> >>> >>> There is no bug here. >>> >>> What that text in 4291 says is that if you run SLAAC on a Global Unicast >>> address not starting with ::/3, then the length of the IID is 64. But when >>> running SLAAC on non-Global Unicast addresses, or Global Unicast addresses >>> in ::/3, then the length of the IID is not specified in RFC 4291 (and >>> presumably left up to the IPv6-over-foo documents). >>> >>> That is why, for example, RFC 2464 has to say that on Ethernet, the >>> link-local address "is formed by appending the Interface Identifier [...] to >>> the prefix FE80::/64". It also says that the IID length is always 64 bits >>> and SLAAC prefixes must be /64. If IPv6 all addresses were classful and the >>> IID length were always 64 bits there would be no need to say that. >>> >>> Also, I'd argue that SLAAC exists to generate IPv6 addresses that conform to >>> the addressing architecture, not the other way around. But that is not in >>> any way necessary to resolve a conflict between the two documents, because >>> there is no conflict. >>> >>>>> BTW: if the reason for the text is a perceived contradiction between the >>>>> fact that "IIDs are 64 bits" and "IPv6 addresses are aggregatable on all >>>>> bit lengths" - I don't see a contradiction. >>>> >>>> I suggest discussing that with Randy Bush. >>> >>> >>> While Randy's "I want to use smaller subnets than /64 because classful >>> addressing is stupid" is a valid position, that does not mean that there is >>> a contradiction between the two specifications. >>> >>> So again - what is the text trying to accomplish? I don't see a bug in the >>> specs. Therefore, it seems to me that the proposed text is changing the IPv6 >>> architecture in a pretty fundamental way, and I don't think it's reasonable >>> to do that at the same time that we elevate it to full standard. >> >> I would tend to agree. > > Actually, I think the NEW text is pretty reasonable if we could > restore the word "required" for the currently allocated unicast status > quo: > > From: > > ... For all currently > allocated unicast addresses, except those that start with the binary > value 000, that length is 64 bits. > > To: > > ... For all currently > allocated unicast addresses, except those that start with the binary > value 000, that length is required to be 64 bits. I could live with that. The "currently allocated" is the point. Brian > > We can always produce a document that updates 4291bis for 4::/3 or > whatever we want, and the new text states so explicitly. > > But I'm not convinced we should change to text that could be read to > weaken the current situation. >
- Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian Haberman
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Punana Lebo
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian Haberman
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Bob Hinden
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 David Farmer
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 heasley
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Suresh Krishnan
- AW: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Karsten Thomann
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 sthaug
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: AW: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Fernando Gont
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Fernando Gont
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 heasley
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Mark Smith
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Fernando Gont
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 John C Klensin
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 David Farmer
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Mark Smith
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Brian E Carpenter
- IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Mark Smith
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Erik Kline
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Randy Bush
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Erik Kline
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Erik Kline
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Tim Chown
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fred Baker
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Unclear text [was IID length text [was Re: Review… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Unclear text [was IID length text [was Re: Re… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Fernando Gont
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Timothy Winters
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Re: Unclear text [was IID length text [was Re: Re… otroan
- Re: IID length text Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… james woodyatt
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… 神明達哉
- Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Fernando Gont
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Sander Steffann
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Updated IID length text Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Updated IID length text Templin, Fred L
- Re: Updated IID length text Mark Andrews
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06 Suresh Krishnan
- Re: IID length text Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Updated IID length text Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text David Farmer
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… otroan
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- RE: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Bob Hinden
- Re: Updated IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: Updated IID length text otroan
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Tore Anderson
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: IID length text [was Re: Review of draft-ietf… Tore Anderson
- Re: IID length text sthaug
- Re: IID length text Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updated IID length text Bob Hinden
- Re: Updated IID length text Suresh Krishnan