IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate-00.txt

Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> Fri, 21 June 2013 19:12 UTC

Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1048221F9F1D for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:12:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -100.453
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.453 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbhBVIdC2g6I for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (va3ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054E521F9F1B for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail212-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.249) by VA3EHSOBE007.bigfish.com (10.7.40.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:41 +0000
Received: from mail212-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail212-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77CB02A01A1 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:41 +0000 (UTC)
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.224.54; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net; RD:none; EFVD:NLI
X-SpamScore: -25
X-BigFish: VPS-25(zz98dI9371I148cI542I1432Izz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1033IL8275dhz2fh2a8h683h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1d07h1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1de9h1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1155h)
Received-SPF: pass (mail212-va3: domain of juniper.net designates 66.129.224.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.129.224.54; envelope-from=rbonica@juniper.net; helo=P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ; -HQ.jnpr.net ;
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report-Untrusted: CIP:157.56.238.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:BY2PRD0512HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT
Received: from mail212-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail212-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1371841959823285_8871; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:39 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from VA3EHSMHS018.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.229]) by mail212-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B05D4009C for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:39 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (66.129.224.54) by VA3EHSMHS018.bigfish.com (10.7.99.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:38 +0000
Received: from P-CLDFE02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.60) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:12:32 -0700
Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.60) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:12:31 -0700
Received: from va3outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (216.32.180.12) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:15:58 -0700
Received: from mail153-va3-R.bigfish.com (10.7.14.227) by VA3EHSOBE001.bigfish.com (10.7.40.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:31 +0000
Received: from mail153-va3 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail153-va3-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BBB160127 for <ipv6@ietf.org.FOPE.CONNECTOR.OVERRIDE>; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:30 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail153-va3 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail153-va3 (MessageSwitch) id 1371841948574496_9985; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:28 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from VA3EHSMHS007.bigfish.com (unknown [10.7.14.225]) by mail153-va3.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA374C00E8; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:28 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from BY2PRD0512HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.238.5) by VA3EHSMHS007.bigfish.com (10.7.99.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:26 +0000
Received: from BY2PRD0512MB653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.5.17]) by BY2PRD0512HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.243.35]) with mapi id 14.16.0324.000; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:26 +0000
From: Ronald Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
To: Ray Hunter <v6ops@globis.net>
Subject: RE: RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate-00.txt
Thread-Topic: RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHObc3OGhJfZWsTvkmEF1gJL7lsrZk+wGpwgAEPggCAAI03oIAACdsAgAAi/1A=
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:25 +0000
Message-ID: <2CF4CB03E2AA464BA0982EC92A02CE2509F85FBA@BY2PRD0512MB653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <2CF4CB03E2AA464BA0982EC92A02CE2509F85151@BY2PRD0512MB653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <51C408BC.4030909@forthnetgroup.gr> <2CF4CB03E2AA464BA0982EC92A02CE2509F85BCB@BY2PRD0512MB653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <51C48776.9070107@globis.net>
In-Reply-To: <51C48776.9070107@globis.net>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn%
X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%GLOBIS.NET$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net
X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%FORTHNETGROUP.GR$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net
X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org 6man-wg" <ipv6@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipv6>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:12:49 -0000

Ray,

Joel has already responded regarding DNSSEC. However, I would like to add a word regarding PMTUD brokenness.

If the bad operator behavior to which you refer is the filtering of ICMP PTB messages, that bad behavior will break IPv6 fragmentation to the same degree that it breaks PMTUD. So, keeping IPv6 fragmentation around won't help very much.

                                                Ron


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Hunter [mailto:v6ops@globis.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 1:04 PM
> To: Ronald Bonica
> Cc: Tassos Chatzithomaoglou; ipv6@ietf.org 6man-wg
> Subject: Re: RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6man-
> frag-deprecate-00.txt
> 
> I have also read this draft.
> 
> It mentions that DNSSEC will be impacted.
> 
> What's the alternative if DNSSEC can't send multiple UDP fragments?
> 
> Isn't expecting a busy DNS server to maintain TCP session state for
> every single query going to be prohibitively expensive?
> Leading to even bigger DoS worries than fragmentation apparently
> causes?
> 
> Isn't using TCP for all DNS queries going to considerably slow down the
> name resolution process, which will impact all applications?
> (multiple RTT for the connection establishment and teardown if you
> clean up properly)
> 
> Since PMTUD is also currently pretty broken in practice, also due to
> "Operator Behavior" and filtering of ICMPv6 in firewalls, doesn't this
> memo effectively state that IPv6 = 1280 octets?
> 
> regards,
> RayH
> 
> Ronald Bonica wrote:
> > Hi Tassos,
> >
> > Thanks for reviewing the draft. Could you provide more detail on what
> is missing?
> >
> >                              Ron
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email